Why is it called the Texus Receptus (recieved text)? Part 2

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You will look at 2 sentences causing you confusion.

1. There is no condemnation for sinners who repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

2. There is no judgment for sinners who repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

Are these sentences same meanings?
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You are right Askjo . These two English words do not have the same meaning, nor the same implication.

Webster's New World Dictionary


condemn: [<L com-, intens. + damnare, to harm] 1. to disapprove of strongly 2. to declare guilty 3. to inflict a penalty upon 4. to doom 5. to appropriate /property/ for public use 6. to declare unfit for use


judgement: 1. a judging; deciding 2. a legal decision; order given by a judge, etc. 3. an opinion 4. the ability to come to an opinion 5. [J-] short for LAST JUDGEMENT


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

From a nice standard Greek Dictionary (Abbott-Smith, 1937, still in print):

KRISIS (the underlying word for _whatever_ English translations might happen to show up in this passage): 1. a separating, selection. 2. a decision, judgment. 3. by metonomy, of the standard of judgment, right, justice.

No mention whatever of "condemnation" as the proper meaning of this particular word.

On the other hand, there is a compound word, KATAKRISIS, which the same lexicon defines specifically and _only_ as "condemnation".
Trouble is, it just doesn't happen to appear in the present contexts.

Had John wanted unequivocally to state "condemnation" in Jn 5:24, all he had to do was write KATAKRISIS instead of KRISIS. He didn't.

I am far more ready to believe John and what he clearly and originally wrote under inspiration than whatever rendering fallible human translators may have made. (There are _no_ textual variants at this point, so here we absolutely _do_ have the "autograph reading"!)

My principle is similar to another well-known claim: "When the English and the Greek disagree, too bad for the English" (apologies to you-know-who for dyslexicizing one of his favorite slogans).

 

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I am far more ready to believe John and what he clearly and originally wrote under inspiration than whatever rendering fallible human translators may have made. (There are _no_ textual variants at this point, so here we absolutely _do_ have the "autograph reading"!)
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It seems apparent to me, that you rather INGNORE CONTEXT as well as BIBLICAL TRUTH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I agree with askjo and michelle on this occassion. Here is an example of what they are saying:

KJV 1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

"judged" in this passage is krino, "condemned" is katakrino.

Let's wait for 200 years of corrections similar to the history of the KJV corrections and see what happens.

In any case this does not mean that the NKJV is "alexandrian".
Personally, I don't have a problem calling the NKJV an MV.

It's not perfect and I'm not happy about some specifics and poor choices, but it's a start for an MV that follows the TR. Call it whatever you will, that is your right.

HankD

 

BTW here is another inconsistency in the KJV.

KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The word here is krino usually translated from the English root "to judge" rather than "to damn" or "to condemn" (katakrino) from the KJV Traditional Text.

In this case the NKJV TR translation is:
NKJ 2 Thessalonians 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

HankD

 

Dear
askjo, Michelle and Ziggy,

There are to key factors for translation John 5:24 ":judgement or condemnation."

1. The meaning of the Greek Word for Judgement. John did write in koine Greek of his day and time.

"1. a separating, sundering, separation; a trial, contest. 2. selection 3. judgement; i.e. opinion or decision given concerning anything, esp. concerning justice and injustice, right and wrong; b.in a forensic sense of the judgement of God or of Jesus the Messiah.
In John's usage krisis denotes a. that judgement which Christ occasioned, in that wicked men rejected the salvation he offered and so of their own accord brought upon themselves misery and punishment.to come into the state of one condemed." (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon.

Clearly the word means judgement in which ever context it is used.to come into the state of one condemed is judgement. It can be translated condemnation in the context. But to come into judgement is correct. It means the same thing.

We have to go by the meaning of the Greek Word krisis.

2.εις κρισιν ουκ ερχεταις, this is present tense and is correctly translated "unto judgement is not coming"

Vincent says this:

"Shall not come into condemnation (εις κρισιν ουκ ερχεται)
The present tense, cometh not. So Rev. Not condemnation, but judgment, as Rev. See on Joh_3:17. Wyc., cometh not into doom. The present, cometh, states the general principle or order." (Vincent's Word Studies)

Ziggy:
Your article was on target thanks

God Bless
John

To me this is a vary small matter in comparison to all the grammaticl facts brought out about the way the NKJV and KJV translated words and phrases. Which clearly shows that the KJV is not inerrant. Thought it is a good translation.

The reason the Greek text for the KJV is called the Textus Receptus (received text) is because this is the term that the publishers used to advertize the KJV. It came to recieve that name over time, but never meant the text that fell down from heaven. Which was impossible sense the first century New Testament writers had already written the New Testament and what Erasmus had was copies. Yes that God had preserved, but were not infallible. Even though they were 98 percent pure. The earliest manuscript Erasmus had was 9th or 10th Century.

[ September 12, 2004, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: Greeker ]

 

Dr Bob,

1. Marcia posted the relevant information earlier on this thread (the numbers following the AV renderings are their frequency of occurrence):

2920 krisis ...
AV - judgment 41, damnation 3, accusation 2, condemnation 2; 48

2. The KJV translators in their preface to the reader specifically said they would render the same Greek word by different English words. Total consistency of rendering of some words can lead to wrong interpretations in certain passages, as you well know. However, the KJV translators probably went overboard on this aspect, particularly in parallel passages (e.g. KJV "this gospel shall be *published* to all nations vs "preached to all nations", when the underlying Greek text is identical (KHRUSSW), and would better have been rendered "proclaimed" in both places.

 

True, but when the English MV the NKJV which uses the TR selects a different English word than the AV, it is often labeled "alexandrian" by KJVO and KJVO wanabees in fulfilment of the "alexandrian cult" fantasy.

HankD

 

Dear Dr. Bob and others,


Act 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken wherein they were gathered together; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,-- in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

What about "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost." The Greek Phrase is "πνευμα αγιον" for both. The KJV translators for variation would use Ghost one time and Spirit another time. Yet doctrines have been built on the differences of the English Words. I had a professor that said one time he tried to explain to a holiness preacher that "Holy spirit and Holy Ghost were the same, and the preacher said wiell it says Holy Ghost in my Bible!

God Bless
John