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Why the controversy?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by APuritanMindset, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Let's stop there, and you will see that I haven't taken anything out of context and that my appraisal of the "self love/loving others" sentiment is right on.

    I'll paraphrase your statement to illuminate the real meaning...

    [paraphrase]If you've never met someone who truly feels there is nothing lovable in them [sic]...[/paraphrase]

    There are many who feel that way, but they don't consider themselves really unlovable, because they never cease to love themselves. The fact of the matter is that they're right. There is nothing lovable in themselves. Consider God's appraisal of the natural state of His elect, "Fear not, thou worm Jacob..."

    Consider Christ's appraisal of His "self-worth" the moment was made to be sin, "But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people."

    The problem is NOT that some people have the correct view of themselves as stinking bags of worms, the problem is the REMEDY they seek.

    Let's go on.

    ...don't deserve love...

    This is also a true appraisal. No one deserves love. If you want to talk about what men deserve, we all deserve eternal torment under the wrath and fiery indignation of God.

    Are you beginning to see that the teaching you've latched onto is actually leading people away from the Gospel?

    ...and really hate their life (not their physical existance, their life) then you should get around people more.

    No body really hates his life. That's the thing one must understand.

    But ... you didn't keep your Scripture reference in context. Paul is talking about husband wife relationships and is talking about the husbands physical body.

    You need to spend less time with Warren/Baker and more time thinking on the Scriptures. Paul is talking about a man loving his wifes as he loves himself; to love her as if she were truly his own body (because she is by the Word of God). To say that Paul simply had the physical body in view is forced. His likening this love to Christ's love of the church would be absurd.

    A man who truly hates his life (and there is no such man), cannot love his body, and one who loves his life cannot hate his body. It's as simple as that.

    Also, what you need to realize is that when Paul said, no man ever yet hated his own flesh he was appealing to a universal principle which all men can see by nature to illustrate the love with which a man ought to love his wife. His point in the passage is defined by that principle. The principle itself is not defined by the passage.

    No man ever yet hated his own flesh. Period. This is a straightforward maxim, a universal and non-optional principle that stands alone and is always true. A man who loves his body loves the life that animates it, whether he thinks that life is worthy of love or not.

    So who are you going to believe? Men who say people hate their lives, or God who says they don't? Are you going to believe your own experiences as viewed through eyes which can only see the outward appearance, or God who tells you what is in the heart?

    The Baker quote is...blah, blah, blah...an excellent, Biblically sound quote.

    I've read the quote and understand it fully. It's simply a summary of the secular philosophy that you can hear each day on Dr. Phil and Oprah. Our disagreement isn't about what the quote says, it's about the Scriptures, which I would recommend that you and Dr. Bob read more often than you do.

    Here's the quote summed up in few words, "Don't do things to please other people, please yourself, because you're worth it."

    But here is the true remedy for those who feel worthless. Yes, you're worthless. Yes, you do not deserve the love of God or man. Yes, there is nothing even remotely lovely about you. You are cursed and already have a death sentence on your head. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    The healthy view of one's self is, I am black with sin.

    The Christian's view is, I am black with sin but comely with the beauty of Christ's imputed holiness. (Cant. 1:5)
     
  2. guitarpreacher

    guitarpreacher New Member

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    Aaron says, "There are many who feel that way, but they don't consider themselves really unlovable, because they never cease to love themselves"

    And you think Baker uses pschyobabble??????
     
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