Why?

It's been my observation that some Baptist pastors like to attack the RCC. It seems to be en vogue in some congregations. I was a visitor at one Baptist church that, quite literally, forbad their members from associating with Catholics.

While discussing differing opinions about doctrine, interpretation, and beliefs are worthy, healthy, and of value for discussion, the manner in which it is often done with the RCC is, imo, shameful.

Some folks just need to attack to feel more important about themselves.

 

The Roman church seems to be the favorite whipping dog for many in Protestant church bodies, and it seems this place has attracted members from several denominations who like to engage in "Bash-a-Catholic".

I haven't been posting much because I have grown tired of responding to the same arguments over and over again, plus there haven't been many posts directed at Lutherans on the board. I also just haven't had the time nor really wanted to take the time to do the research and prep necessary to respond to some of the arguments.

 

Maybe some people are just taking advantage of most of the Catholics being gone for lent. Still it would have been nice to have a time of peace instead of business as usual.

 

Chemnitz,

Perhaps you could clear something up for me.

I have HEARD (I do not believe this, nor am I asserting my opinion) that Hilter got some of his anti semetic rhetoric from reading Luthers writings.

Do you think that there is any truth to this?

Do you know of anything that Luther has written that may have been taken as antisemetic?

God Bless

 

3AM, yes, Luther was quite anti-semitic. Here is a web page about that:

Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies

It is based on Martin Luther's own quotes.

Having said that, I'm not aware that Lutherans are anti-semitic. I expect they reject Martin Luther's anti-semitism. I don't know that for a fact but I would think that they would.

Helen/AITB

 

Those of who study Luther's writings don't really believe he is truly anti-semetic. Rather at the time he was exceedingly ticked off about Jewish attitudes and their treatment of gentile peoples, not to mention their rejection of the Gospel. It was their blatant rejection of the Gospel that resulted in the writing of Jews and their lies. Some people have made backdoor apologies for his expressing his temper in writing.
I really don't think Luther was an anti-semite rather just a hotheaded German who expressed his frustrations in writing, because some of his earlier writings have a more positive view point concerning the Jewish people. Of course, there are those who believe witnessing to the Jews is anti-semitic.
Remember Hitler was trying everything he could to consolidate his power and turn the German people against the Jews. Since, a sizable portion of the German population was nominally Lutheran, Luther's single "anti-Jewish" writing was fair game. The Lutherans who were more familiar with the actual writings of Luther at the time recognized Hitler's tactic for what it was, propoganda and actually did what they could to thwart Hitler. I had a pastor who spent time in one of the Concentration camps, he said there were more Lutherans in the camp than Jews, and most were because they had stood up to Hitler.
I have despised the Holocaust Museums because they always cite Luther's Against the Jews and blame him for the Holocaust but neglect to mention the number of Lutheran laypeople and clergy who served in the Underground to get the Jewish people out of Europe.

 

Sherrie,

I am not bashing anyone. I am trying to find out the truth about something that I heard.

For someone who wants us to lighten up, you sure did take that one UN lightly.

God Bless

 

I agree Sherrie, it's about the only topic in here and the reason why I rarely post here or even read here in this forum.

John, I haven't heard(in person) one single baptist pastor attack the RCC.

 

I agree with Chemnitz on this point. Luther's problem was lack of care about what he said, not anti-semitism. Perhaps his initial dislike of James 2 led him to miss out on James 3, it probably didn't help that he was rather fond of beer too He would have benefited to think more before speaking as he was a little too quick to voice his frustrations with biting sarcasm. The impression that I get from reading what little of his writings that I have read (and it is very little) is basically what Chemnitz has said.

The website "Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies" quotes Martin Luther's quoting of Jesus calling the Jews a brood of vipers. If you're going to say that Luther was anti-semitic because of that, you're calling Jesus who according to His human nature, was a Jew, anti-semitic.

 

Catholics are the single largest Christian denomination in the U.S.

Typically - you do not find Catholic members (non-theology students) to be particularly well informed about God's Word. (In fact I am studying the Bible with someone now that claims to have been raised RC and studied in RC private schools -- does not know Genesis from John but knows a lot about RC tradition). We are having to go back to the "basics" - what books are in the Bible and what do they talk about.

A fascinating exercise. It does not require that "I" bash Catholics - the person I am studying with simply says "I have not learned this BECAUSE I was trained in a Catholic school where they taught mostly tradition". In his teenage years a became disinterested and simply attended "in body" but not in spirit. This is now 15 years later and he is interested in knowing what the Bible actually says.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Just maybe if we can learn to laugh together and share, we all can learn something.

Well, if that doesn't deserve an hearty AMEN, then I don't know what does!!

 

Hey Sherrie:

I can bash Catholics with the best of them, but I've grown
weary of it too. After all, they don't have a monopoly on
anything so we don't have to play defense all the time.

How about this for a topic...........

To bring the topic to God, Jesus, Salvation (Whatever), while
performing musically in bars, lounges and other events, I've
been known to walk up to a table full of strangers (my position
allows me to do this . ) and say:

"So do you think there's sex in heaven".

It doesn't come across as too "religious'' of a question to them
and yet it has given birth to alot of interesting discussions and
one that reveals in many.....a nature of seeking for peace.

That of course is the "God Vacuum" that is in each one of us and
there are alot of spiritually needy people in bars. Also alot of them
are spiritually responsive if someone will just bring up the topic.

Sometimes I'm glad our breaks are only 20 minutes long. LoL

Singer

P.S. We havent arrived at an answer to the question yet, however

 

Maybe you don't, but I do.

I don't think Luther was Mr Perfect by any means.

Didn't he also watch the Anabaptists being deliberately killed by drowning because they insisted on believer's baptism by immersion, saying "If they want to go under, let them go under!"

It seems to me that compassion and empathy were not his strongest suits.

Helen/AITB

 

Actually, if you read more of Luther's works you would find he was strongly compasionate for others. In many of his writings he shows a great deal of concern for the spiritual and physical wellbeing for the common people. While I am not familiar with your quote, it would not suprise me to see him make such a strong statement about a group that attacked a doctrine he held so dearly. At the same time I doubt that is a real quote because he usually advocated the removal of such sects from the territory rather than the out right killing.

 

I feel it is not only the Catholics that get bashed but so do a lot of other beliefs... I serve God in my own way according to the dictates of my heart and let all men and women do likewise. Each thinks his is the true and only way... But I will tell you as the moderator of the Baptist History Forum... Many who think they are not in error have been in error in the past... And yes as much as it hurts even Baptist... None are without their faults and history proves nothing less.

That seems to be a lot of Christians favorite past time unless you agree with me You are in error... Is that what the Lord teaches us... Or are we suppose to Love the Lord or God with all we have and love our neighbor as ourself. I may disagree with doctrine and if any of you want to see what I mean... Feel free to visit the Calvinist/Arminian Debate Forum which I also moderate... Btw I'm Primitive Baptist in case you want to know... Our belief is Jesus Christ will SAVE all his people and not lose a one... Just like the scripture say... Brother Glen The Primitive Baptist

 

[Please see the new thread I started about Luther. I had a post here about him but I moved it so as not to continue taking Sherrie's thread off-topic. I apologize for doing that, Sherrie ]

[ April 04, 2003, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]