1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Will only a few be saved? A Look at 2 Esdras

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 29, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    35
    Faith:
    Baptist
    While 2 Esdras isn't included in the Jewish canon, Jesus appears to have quoted from it in Matthew 23:37-39:

    In 2 Esdras 7, God rejoices at the few who are saved, while not grieving over the multitude who perish:

    Please compare the above to Matthew 7:13-14.

    Please compare the above to Matthew 22:14.

    2 Esdras (also confusingly called 4 Esdras) might have been excluded from the Catholic canon because it forbids praying for the dead:

     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,643
    Likes Received:
    631
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Apostle Paul also quoted a Greek poet, Acts of the Apostles 17:28, ". . . For we are also his offspring. . . ." Meaning God.
     
  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    35
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is considered to be a Christian interpolation of 2 Esdras, which says that an innumerable group of people who confessed the Son of God will be saved:

    2 Esdras 2
    42 I Esdras saw upon the mount Sion a great people, whom I could not number, and they all praised the Lord with songs.
    43 And in the midst of them there was a young man of a high stature, taller than all the rest, and upon every one of their heads he set crowns, and was more exalted; which I marvelled at greatly.
    44 So I asked the angel, and said, Sir, what are these?
    45 He answered and said unto me, These be they that have put off the mortal clothing, and put on the immortal, and have confessed the name of God: now are they crowned, and receive palms.
    46 Then said I unto the angel, What young person is it that crowneth them, and giveth them palms in their hands?
    47 So he answered and said unto me, It is the Son of God, whom they have confessed in the world. Then began I greatly to commend them that stood so stiffly for the name of the Lord.


    I don't know why the first two chapters should be doubted just because their language appears to be Christian, but the fact that they were not included in the Greek version is worth mentioning.
     
    #3 Humble Disciple, Jul 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,933
    Likes Received:
    1,747
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There is no need to go outside of the word of God.
    Revelation 7:9-10 will tell you all you need to know.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    35
    Faith:
    Baptist
    2 Esdras was included in the King James Bible.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    7,643
    Likes Received:
    631
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, but not as the word of God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    6,933
    Likes Received:
    1,747
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Article VI of the Church of England: 'Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation.'
    'And the other books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine.....'
     
  8. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,079
    Likes Received:
    1,222
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that whoever wrote Esdras probably copied parts of Matthew, Isaiah and Jeremiah.
    I agree with what this reference shows...
    When I take this together with other parts of the Scriptures ( like Revelation 7:9 ), I see a remnant out of every tongue, tribe and nation that will compose a multitude that no man can number.

    Yet, I also understand that it will be a very small number when compared to the billions that have ever lived and died since the earth was created.
    Speaking for myself, I don't believe that anything in the Apocryphal books were inspired by God.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    35
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The same God who calls His elect while letting the rest of humanity perish is the same God who chose Noah and his family while flooding the entire earth, and the same God who chose Israel while commanding the slaughter of entire Gentile villages. We should be thankful that, out of His grace, God has chosen anyone unto salvation.

    On the other hand, God promised Abraham that his descendants would be innumerable as the stars (Genesis 15:5, Galatians 3:7). “A great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages” will ultimately by saved, by God’s calling His elect unto Himself. (Revelation 7:9-10)

    While the number of Noah’s family and of the nation of Israel was indeed small, the number of God’s elect, by the time the world ends, will be innumerable. You can bank on it. Some of the greatest missionaries and evangelists have been Calvinists, due to their assurance that God would use their preaching to draw His elect unto Himself.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    745
    Likes Received:
    35
    Faith:
    Baptist
    While 2 Esdras might not have the same authority as sacred scripture, it's nonetheless edifying to read, especially since Jesus Himself quoted from it.

    Here is proof that 2 Esdras was of Jewish, rather than Christian authorship:

    The Book of Revelation was written as a corrective of 2 Edras, since 2 Esdras was written with the mistaken belief that Christ's kingdom on earth would reign for four hundred years, rather than a thousand years. The number of four hundred was based on the length of Israel's captivity in Egypt.

    While it might seem like only a few will be saved, it will end up being a vast multitude at the end of history:

    Please also keep in mind that 2 Esdras was excluded from the Catholic canon, likely because it taught against praying for the dead.

     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...