SaggyWoman
Active Member
Now, Doctor Bob, how is it that when a man does three points a poem and a prayer, it is preaching but when a woman does it, it is testifying????
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Women in the Ministry
- Thread starter SaggyWoman
- Start date
Pam Madore
New Member
My goodness, Dr. Bob, I am going to have to agree with Saggywoman here. How in tbe world can you change the name from preaching to testifying? Semantics. I am thinking that God might be thinking we are being a little silly here. Actually, about more than half of the preaching I do is to saved Baptist men who are hungry for spiritual growth. What is your definition of "pastor"?
Pam Madore
New Member
Mr. Briguy--Help me out here. You were quoting a reference in 1 Cor 14. I am thinking you mean 1 Cor 14: 33-35? If so, please point me to the place in the "law" that Paul is referring to that substantiates this scripture.
I agree that women have a definite place in the ministry but God does not call women to be in positions of authority over men.
1 Timothy 2:12 - "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
God does not call women to be pastors or deacons nor does he call them to sit on pulpit committees. God also does not call women to teach spiritual truths to men. The main ministry of a woman is in the home not in the church.
Titus 2:4 - "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Titus 2:5 - "To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."
Sincerely,
Bro. Steve Smith
P.S. Don't get mad at the messenger just because you don't like the message. The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
1 Timothy 2:12 - "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
God does not call women to be pastors or deacons nor does he call them to sit on pulpit committees. God also does not call women to teach spiritual truths to men. The main ministry of a woman is in the home not in the church.
Titus 2:4 - "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Titus 2:5 - "To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed."
Sincerely,
Bro. Steve Smith
P.S. Don't get mad at the messenger just because you don't like the message. The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Ok folks . . . I have this burning question in my heart right now. If I am to be in subjection to and obedient to my husband . . . and if my husband is the head of my home, then why in the name of all that is sacred would God call a woman to be in authority over my husband?
I do agree that the Bible tells us to submit one to another, however this is not in the context of the church (pastors, preaching, etc).
It is quite sickening to think that I am married to a man that I am to allow to lead our home, and yet some would have that same man submit himself to the leadership of a woman in the church.
This is confusion . . . and we all know who the author that is!
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]
I do agree that the Bible tells us to submit one to another, however this is not in the context of the church (pastors, preaching, etc).
It is quite sickening to think that I am married to a man that I am to allow to lead our home, and yet some would have that same man submit himself to the leadership of a woman in the church.
This is confusion . . . and we all know who the author that is!
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]
Pam Madore
New Member
Mr. Pioneer--it seems that the scripture would allow women to teach children? After all Timothy learned from his mother and grandmother. Exactly what age do you think a mother can no longer teach her son because he is now a man?
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Miss Madore (or Mrs.),
I said what I said in reply to the following statement that you made:
"Actually, about more than half of the preaching I do is to saved Baptist men who are hungry for spiritual growth."
Your "ministry" will never have God's hand of blessing on it because it is contrary to the written word of God.
Sincerely,
Bro. Steve Smith
P.S.
I refuse to get entangled in your silly arguments (II Tim. 3:5 KJV).
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
I said what I said in reply to the following statement that you made:
"Actually, about more than half of the preaching I do is to saved Baptist men who are hungry for spiritual growth."
Your "ministry" will never have God's hand of blessing on it because it is contrary to the written word of God.
Sincerely,
Bro. Steve Smith
P.S.
I refuse to get entangled in your silly arguments (II Tim. 3:5 KJV).
[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Pioneer ]
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I wish I could stay at home, but who is going to pay the stinking rent????????
Pam Madore
New Member
Why is it that I don't see a lot of love here? If you all think that I need correcting, why are your comments hard, cold, and bitter? Isn't this exactly what the world sees when they look at the church? Angry, bitter people fighting among themselves? Isn't it possible for us all to just admit that "now we see through a glass darkly" and show a lost world that we love each other? Mr. Pioneer, you say that God will never bless my ministry--is He blessing yours with such bitterness and hatred in your heart? Jesus set me just as free as you.
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pam Madore:
Why is it that I don't see a lot of love here? If you all think that I need correcting, why are your comments hard, cold, and bitter? Isn't this exactly what the world sees when they look at the church? Angry, bitter people fighting among themselves? Isn't it possible for us all to just admit that "now we see through a glass darkly" and show a lost world that we love each other? Mr. Pioneer, you say that God will never bless my ministry--is He blessing yours with such bitterness and hatred in your heart? Jesus set me just as free as you.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pam,
Unfortunately, most Baptist believe they already have all of the answers and nobody else could possibly be right. As for Mr. Pioneer, I don't think you'll be hearing a response from him if he holds true to his word in another forum to never come back to the BaptistBoard which is full of us evil herietics and those who tolerate us. He can't handle the whole concept of soul liberty which is a basic Baptist principle.
God will bless you as long as you are faithful to his calling on your life...not Pioneer's calling. In the end, his is just another of many opinions in Baptist circle which means next to nothing compared to the opinion of God. Pray, study his word for yourself, and listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Do not follow the popular opinions of man...or even the Baptist. Follow the will of God. We have no king but Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!! (John ashcroft said that in a speech given at Bob Jones University...and I agree with him).
Joseph
[ May 20, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]
Why is it that I don't see a lot of love here? If you all think that I need correcting, why are your comments hard, cold, and bitter? Isn't this exactly what the world sees when they look at the church? Angry, bitter people fighting among themselves? Isn't it possible for us all to just admit that "now we see through a glass darkly" and show a lost world that we love each other? Mr. Pioneer, you say that God will never bless my ministry--is He blessing yours with such bitterness and hatred in your heart? Jesus set me just as free as you.
Pam,
Unfortunately, most Baptist believe they already have all of the answers and nobody else could possibly be right. As for Mr. Pioneer, I don't think you'll be hearing a response from him if he holds true to his word in another forum to never come back to the BaptistBoard which is full of us evil herietics and those who tolerate us. He can't handle the whole concept of soul liberty which is a basic Baptist principle.
God will bless you as long as you are faithful to his calling on your life...not Pioneer's calling. In the end, his is just another of many opinions in Baptist circle which means next to nothing compared to the opinion of God. Pray, study his word for yourself, and listen to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Do not follow the popular opinions of man...or even the Baptist. Follow the will of God. We have no king but Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!!! (John ashcroft said that in a speech given at Bob Jones University...and I agree with him).
Joseph
[ May 20, 2001: Message edited by: JBotwinick ]
Pam, If Joseph from the last post is telling you to follow your heart and not what the Bible says then that is poor advice. God knows best even when it may differ from our personal opinions. 1 Cor. 14:34-35 says "(as in all the churches of the saints) Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted for them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask thier husbands at home; for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" The greek word for shame means ugly or deformed. If something is deformed it is not what the person intended it to look like. That is the point, God intended the gathered assembly to look a certain way and when a women is speaking in authority to men (teaching, preaching) it defroms that intention or turns it ugly. Pam, you certainly sound like you have a heart for God so move forward but do not deform his intentions. As for the law read what Paul writes in 1 tim. 2:11-12 In verse 12 Paul explains that Adam was not deceived but Eve was deceived and was in transgression
That is why a women can not upsurp the authority of a man, this design was God's law right from the begining of people. Pam, hope this helps, Keep fighting the good fight!
That is why a women can not upsurp the authority of a man, this design was God's law right from the begining of people. Pam, hope this helps, Keep fighting the good fight!
Joseph_Botwinick
<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Briguy said: Pam, If Joseph from the last post is telling you to follow your heart and not what the Bible says then that is poor advice.
My reply: Actually, I encouraged her to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, not her feelings, her heart, or any new age psychobabbel like that. Perhaps you don't believe in soul competency for women. Perhaps you believe that the Holy Spirit doesn't talk to women like he does to men. Yes the Holy Spirit is only for men...right? Ridiculous unless you are a Catholic.
Joseph
My reply: Actually, I encouraged her to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, not her feelings, her heart, or any new age psychobabbel like that. Perhaps you don't believe in soul competency for women. Perhaps you believe that the Holy Spirit doesn't talk to women like he does to men. Yes the Holy Spirit is only for men...right? Ridiculous unless you are a Catholic.
Joseph
I know of only one way the Holy Spirit speaks to us, and that is through the Bible.
There are many ways a woman can and should serve in ministry, but the Bible is very clear about MEN being in leadership positions over the church. There just is no way to get around it. I suffer not a woman to teach or usurp authority over men. It is that clear.
Ladies, go home to your husbands. Be submissive. Love them and your children, so that the Word of God be not blasphemed.
There are many ways a woman can and should serve in ministry, but the Bible is very clear about MEN being in leadership positions over the church. There just is no way to get around it. I suffer not a woman to teach or usurp authority over men. It is that clear.
Ladies, go home to your husbands. Be submissive. Love them and your children, so that the Word of God be not blasphemed.
SaggyWoman
Active Member
No hubby to go home to.
No children to love except those in the church.
No children to love except those in the church.
Saggy, we know you are the exception, here. Though you don't have a husband and children of your own, you can still follow God's plan with respect to church leadership. Your ministry is with children, and to my knowledge, you are not usurping authority over men by ministering to children.
To the married ladies, if you are in your homes, being submissive to your own husbands, and caring for your young ones like God intended women to do, chances are, you won't be as tempted to take over places of authority in the church. Titus 2: 3-5, I Tim. 5:14, Ephesians 5:22-24,33, I Tim. 2:11-3:7
To the married ladies, if you are in your homes, being submissive to your own husbands, and caring for your young ones like God intended women to do, chances are, you won't be as tempted to take over places of authority in the church. Titus 2: 3-5, I Tim. 5:14, Ephesians 5:22-24,33, I Tim. 2:11-3:7
Pam Madore
New Member
Have you ever noticed how Catholics took an isolated verse or two about Mary and made a theology out of it? Or how charismatics took a few verses about speaking in tongues and made a theology out of that? It is pretty easy to see that THEY are wrong, right? We had better hope, ladies, that when we stand before the Lord on that glorious day that our theology was right. Case in point would be that in 1 Cor. 14: 34-35 reference is made to the fact that women are to keep silent......AS ALSO SAITH THE LAW. Now I may have missed it but I don't remember reading in The Law that women are to keep quiet. Wouldn't that just make you wonder what law Paul might be referring to? Or are we so unteachable that we aren't even willing to explore it? Another thing I could never figure out is why these scriptures don't apply to us ladies as long as we leave the country? Granted Eve was deceived. I have no argument with that. But Adam deliberately CHOSE to disobey God. Do you think a spirit of rebellion is more credible? I do stay at home (that is, I don't have a secular job outside the home) and I am submissive to my husband insofar as he submits to Christ (my daughter is grown) BUT my relationship to God is #1 before my husband, my daughter, my church or anything else. Anything less is idolatry, pure and simple.
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Ok, I am interested in knowing why no one answered my question concerning why, if I am to be submissive to my husband and he is the head of my home, would God allow a woman to be in authority over my husband in the Church? I honestly do not see where in the Bible God ever condones a woman being in authority within the Church.
If God commands a woman to be submissive/obedient to her husband, why in the world would He allow that same woman to have authority over men within the Church?
If God commands a woman to be submissive/obedient to her husband, why in the world would He allow that same woman to have authority over men within the Church?
SaggyWoman
Active Member
I am not sure what authority a woman has at church that your husband would need to be submissive to.
KeeperOfMyHome
New Member
Saggy ~ My question is geared to those who think God would call a woman to a position of leadership (pastor, teaching men in Sunday School, women preaching to men from teh pulpit, etc).