Women wearing pants are in sin

Because you keep saying it. Should I believe what you are saying or not?

When you said when you look at a woman your focus is on her clothing, not her face.

Dressing to bring attention is not just for those wearing pants, or even jewlery. You havre told on here how people come and ask you why you only wear dresses, or cover your head. So I'd be careful if I were you when accusing people of dressing for attention. And do you think when a woman wears pants she is only looking for attenion? Not true for most women.

I'll bet my pants cover more of my body then your dresses do of yours. And who are you to tell people what pleases God? Yopu ought to dress in a way that you see as pleaseing to God, but do ask other people to be like you or they aren't "dress in a way that pleases the Lord".

Yes, they do(and God), so stop judging them. Thats what God does.

Your constant attitude says it to me and others. When you say a biblical women, a woman who obeys God, or say that when someone else(not you, but anyone else) wears pants, or doesn't cover their head they are disobeying.

And if women don't wear what you consider this to be then your saying they aren't born again christian women. ANd you come up with this...

And where is this in the bible, and just which verse says what this is or isn't. The way it is worded above leaves it open to personal interpstation.

Again, I need a verse.

 

I think maybe the Vatican also thinks what is on the outside brings glory to the Lord.

I have a hard time with that.

I have a harder time with being under the impression that some woman is checking out my body in the clothes I am wearing!

For myself, I notice a person's eyes -- the windows of the soul. I find the eyes much more interesting than what the body is dressed in. Perhaps the sort of time I would notice the clothes first is when something is REALLY outrageous -- think Academy Awards, Lady Godiva, a clown walking down the main street of town...

It would take that much. Very often I can have an extended conversation with someone and five minutes later not be able to tell you anything they were wearing at all. I'm lucky to get the color of their skin right! The person inside is just ever so much more interesting.

And when I am wondering if a person I don't know is a brother or sister in Christ, it has 99% to do with their demeanor and eyes and 1% on outward appearance. I made an idiot of myself enough times in the past not to make the outward-appearance mistake again -- I hope!

 

You and me both Helen.

Your post made me think Helen, if we we judge how obedient a woman is to God by her clothing, what she wearing(dress only, long hair, covered up), how pleasing she is to God, then one might mistake a muslin woman for being christian, after all in here according to some she's more pleaseing to God then I am. I'm so glad God doesn't do it this way. To Him, He sees Jesus, whats in the heart.

 

And why should we have a hard time believing that those things done outwardly, whether it is what we wear, what we do or say, etc etc etc, brings glory to God? There are many verses that support what many believe: what's on the outside can bring glory or dishonour to the Lord.

(Col 1:10 KJV) That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

(1 John 3:22 KJV) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Even Jesus told the Pharisees that once the inside is cleaned up, then the outside will then be cleaned up as well:

(Mat 23:26 KJV) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also8/.

Julia

 

I don't think anyone is saying that the outward is the only thing that says whether or not someone is biblical...it should be an inward change that then causes outward changes.

 

I agree, Molly. But changes, not concentration on...

No one here is arguing modesty, folks, and the change is one of immodesty, in many cases, to modesty with salvation. What everyone is arguing about is appearance -- and this is exactly what the Bible tells us NOT to concentrate on.

I'd love to see a thread where the ladies were primarily involved in a matter of biblical material for sixteen pages! Threads like this make me feel my gender is extraordinarily shallow on the whole and it honestly makes me feel ashamed.

In what way, please tell me, is this entire thread honoring to God or building up the body of Christ? There are only cacklings and criticisms back and forth.

And that doesn't say much for the character He is building inside us! I submit that this concentration on clothing and this continual bickering is rather a shame to the Lord and bringing down His name to anyone reading.

 

HCL wrote:

Glory Halleluia Sister, I have experienced the exact same thing! It has been exactly one year that I have been dressing modestly, covering my head and submitting to my husband on purpose. Men have been so respectful of me in this decision, but some other women have been down right mean. I had to switch churches. The old church simply couldn't come to terms with the changes I made. I used to be the most fashionably dressed, well made up woman on the block. I wore slacks and jeans and (as well as dresses on occassion) and I wore my artistically applied make-up and thoughtfully added accessories (golden jewelry) every single day. When I changed, some of the other church ladies were just so cruel. It hurt me to the bone.

When I dressed in a worldly way, it robbed my family of money that could have better been saved. It robbed my family of time. I spent so much time perfecting my appearance that I had less time to make the kids breakfast, or help them find their socks in the morning. It robbed me of my self-worth, because it was all tied up in outward appearance and other's perceptions of me, instead of inward attitude.

I only wear lomg dresses and jumpers now (well skirt too). I wear leggings under them in the winter and short bloomers under them in summer. Even if a strong wind comes up, the worst any passerby will see is my knees (not my breakfast). Some women may not feel convicted to wear dresses only, but I do. And for my family and my marriage, it has only brought good things.

Wearing slacks may not be a sin, but for me, it interfered directly with my ablility to be a christian wife and mother. I would rather be the best christian woman I can be, and for me that means never wearing slacks again.

Miss Maggie

 

I'd love to see a thread where the ladies were primarily involved in a matter of biblical material for sixteen pages![Helen]

"The issue of modesty vs. immodesty is Biblical and the only cackling & criticisms I see are coming from the ones who are against those who believe the whole Bible with all their heart.

I've seen Headcoveredlady attacked again & again & I don't understand it. I don't always wear a headcovering, I cut my bangs & I wear liptint, but I don't feel like she's judging me for it.

I don't know why it bothers folks when a few ladies want to discuss clothing. I reckon if this was on the thong it'd be the #1 thread!

There are some who are reading but afraid to voice their opinion for fear of being ridiculed & I can't say that I blame them.

What ever happened to the little girls who used to like to play "dress-up"...now it's "let's see how slouchy I can be".

I think Headcoveredlady has a calling as she senses the urgency of the hour & I think she's been most gracious & kind in her earnest appeal.

Proverbs 4:23 "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life."

 

Grannygumbo,I am not one who wears dresses all the time,and I have to say,I see,as one not choosing either way,that the ones who are choosing to wear dresses only are the ones being treated with an attitude that I do not understand. I can respect(and I truly do) and love these ladies without having to agree 100% with everything they(you) say or teach. I do not understand the animosity....from the ones that diagree or for some reason have a problem with it....I think it is most respectable and I'm sure God is pleased with the attitude of humbleness that is displayed through your clothing choices.

[ November 29, 2002, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Molly ]

 

Molly, we respect their decision, too. But this constant concentration on the outward appearance (this has got to be the thirteenth or fourteenth thread on this subject this year!) and the implied condemnation by some that those who choose to wear other than dresses are somehow not as righteous or obedient or modest or whatever is highly resented and very divisive.

Stating one's opinion and why one has made the choices she has is one thing -- and it is fine. But to imply that others who are not swinging into line with that opinion are not as good as someone else is just plain wrong.

If the issue were modesty vs. immodesty, that would be one thing, but it is not. Everyone, as I said, agrees that modesty is imperative. After that it is a matter of style.

We are arguing over STYLE, not over anything else. And that is not only absurd, it is diverting everyone's mind off the concentration on Christ which is the focus of a Christian life.

 

I agree,who has implied that they are more righteous or more spiritual?

 

Well, Helen, maybe one reason the issue never gets resolved is because the threads get locked...perhaps the folks would rather discuss how "proper & right" it is to drink wine or beer or wear a thong, yes?

Warm southern greetings & welcome to the BB, MissMaggie! Nice picture!

 

You say she has a calling, well then isn't a persons calling for themself? Is everything the Lord calls me to do what He has also called you to do? Noone has said she is wrong in believeing she shouldn't wear pants, but we (or at least I do) believe that it should never be pushed on another person. Making personal opinion(or 'calling') on the same elvel as scripture, even if you feel that you have scriptural support. I have done children's ministry of one kind of another since I was aved, and feel very passionately about it(even more so about ministry to the poor), but I have never come here and said you have to do the samething I do, if you do not you are being disobdient, and are not pleasing to God. I have read scripture many times, and continue to study it, and not once has God revealed,( or shown or whatever your language here for this) that He would have me wear dresses only, and until/unless He does I'll be wearing my modest pants.

I'm agreeing with Helen on this one. What does this same conversation over and over get us? Nothing. We all keep saying the samething over and over, if noone has changed their mind by now they aren't going to. And it's noones place to make someone change their mind, but God's.

 

I agree with Helen and Katie.

I would like to see the ones who wear dresses all the time respect the ones who wear pants as well as dresses.

You have said over and over that wearing only dresses has made a wonderful change in your lives.

I have asked you to explain this, but I have been ignored.

Today, I wore a dress. We travelled over 500 miles, making stops along the way, McDonalds, rest stops, a marina on the lake, a nursing home,
and I was not treated any differently than if I had worn pants or jeans. Not better, not worse.
I was treated with no more respect. No one made fun of me...Yes I was at a large lake with a dress on.

Now, I respect you ladies who wear only dresses so lets stop discussing this unless you can list some reasons as to how your life is better and how you are serving the Lord better.

All I have seen is contraditions on your part.

I do not think that this has resulted in a Bible Study.

As for me, I will wait for your list of wonderful things that have happened in your life, however, I don't think that anything that you will say can convince me that women who dress modestly in pants is wrong in the sight of God.

No matter what a women wears it is difficult to hide their shape and I don't see why they should hide it.

 

I'm agreeing with Helen on this one. What does this same conversation over and over get us? Nothing. We all keep saying the samething over and over, if noone has changed their mind by now they aren't going to. And it's noones place to make someone change their mind, but God's[katie]

"Do you not think there is one single lady out there who has been blessed by what they have read here? Is it not possible that one who was teetering on the verge of wearing dresses(only) made a discovery here?

I've never felt HCL was forcing me or anyone to change their mind. I wish I had met someone like her years ago. Not one pastor I ever sat under preached on this subject.

Sure I'd read it in the KJBible, but thought that didn't pertain to us today. Even when I'd stumble across someone's writings in a christian periodical, I'd think, "oh he just likes women that way." I flat-out refused to give up my slacks!

It was only after I diligently asked the Lord to show me, that I then knew what He would have me to do & I have never once looked back or regretted it. Yes, there has been a price-Where we had 16 members of our family in church together, we now have half.

As long as it doesn't get locked, I think it will fizzle out, don't you? I've never asked anyone's approval over my opinions(they aren't much anyway), but I dislike being treated like a little child being smacked on the hand.

 

[ November 29, 2002, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Barnabas ]

 

[QB]I would like to see the ones who wear dresses all the time respect the ones who wear pants as well as dresses.[QB]

Actually, there has, unfortunately, been disrespect on both sides. Disrespect has been shown to both those who wear pants and to those who don't.

[QB]You have said over and over that wearing only dresses has made a wonderful change in your lives.
I have asked you to explain this, but I have been ignored.[QB]

I have read some posts giving explainations; if you'd like, I'll point them out for you.

[QB]All I have seen is contraditions on your part.[QB]

Such as???

Julia

 

Wow! Two new pages since I last visited.

No... </font>[/QUOTE]At last a straight answer to my very simple and straightforward question. Brian T, you are to be commended.

It is to be noted that many of those who have dogged HCL, Molly and Granny Gumbo have avoided this question like the plague.

Now, are form-fitting jeans modest?

And maybe some of you are in denial (not meant to offend).

</font>[/QUOTE]What is odd is your "interpretation." Verse with context: Paul said, "I will...that women adorn themselves in modest apparel..."

 

If something posted on these vast seventeen (?) pages now has made someone more loving, or kind, or understanding, or patient, or self-controlled, that that is wonderful. However if all it has done is either encourage some women to wear more dresses and others to feel guilty that maybe they are not, then this is a terrific waste of bandwidth for a Christian forum.

This is one subject on which there is not one good reason to try to get anyone to change their mind. It's fine to express your own opinion and choice and how you got there, but seventeen pages is definitely showing pressure and response to pressure, perhaps on both sides.

As far as a pastor preaching on the subject of dresses only, I should hope not! There is no biblical support for it at all! Feminine modesty does not require a dress. However if, in your life and circumstances, the HOLY SPIRIT has laid it on your heart to stick to dresses, than that is personal to you and you would sin by disobeying!

Some men do like women that way. If your husband is one of them, then dresses are it for you. That's simple! However, do you see the implications to others in your last sentence there? "I flat-out refused to give up my slacks!" With an exclamation point for emphasis. You are telling us you were at least very stubborn about it. You are also implying that anyone else who refuses to give up slacks is stubborn! This is what is getting under the skin of some women who try very hard to follow the Lord in their own lives.

If what drove your family apart was the Gospel itself, or the person of Christ, then I would understand that. But if what drove your family apart was a matter of dresses only then junk the dresses! If the half of the family that left is Christian, then you have caused division over appearances and that is truly sad. It is our job to build up the body of Christ, not harm bits of it! Whatever would make you imagine in your wildest dreams that one person, let alone eight, were worth sacrificing in that way for your outer garments? I would beg you on behalf of the others of your family to reconsider your position and know that in Christ we are free.

Did you state that your position was the righteous one and therefore theirs weren't? If so, I would caution you that our righteousness is in Christ and in HIM only, not in anything we wear.

It got locked temporarily so the moderators could discuss a problem that had arisen, and then it was reopened by Barnabas. In the meantime, this particular subject is brought up more often by and for ladies than any other pertaining to women. It obviously does not wear itself out.

What happened to discussions of Christian character? What happened to discussions of dealing with difficult situations in a Christian way, so we could encourage and build up one another?

 

Not based on whats been said here I doubt it. Not sure an holier then thou attitude can convince anyone of anything.
Again I say, no one has said she is wrong for wanting to wear only dresses, but her attitude in saying we can't make that same decision for ourselves is. She soesn't just tell us why she does it, but says we have to dot he samethings she does if we want to be in obedience, and acceptable to God. Not true. I for one am gretting pretty tired of being told I am not in obedience to God, and therefore not acceptable to Him if I ever wear pants.