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Featured Word Study G5500, cheirotoneō

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    Here we have a compound word, literally meaning hand stretching. But the word is used to indicate taking a vote by a show of hands to select someone for something.

    Acts 14:23, When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

    Here, this rendering misses the information of how the elders were selected, i.e. by a show of hands, a vote of the members. A far more complete translation would read, When they had selected elders for them by a show of hands in every church, having prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

    2 Corinthians 8:19 and not only this, but he has also been appointed by the churches to travel with us in this gracious work, which is being administered by us for the glory of the Lord Himself, and to show our readiness,

    Again the vote is obliterated in the rendering, whereas a literal translation would read, “but he has also been selected by a show of hands by the churches….”

    Word Studies bring to light where versions hit the mark and where they miss the mark.
    The idea is not to quibble over this word or that word, but to bring to light that we can grow more aware of God’s Word by doing objective and unbiased word studies.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    In Acts 14:23 Van wants a show of hands. How many of you BB members think Van is barking up the wrong tree? Ha,Ha.

    Darby :chosen. Weymouth :selected.

    The word "appointed" is used in the following versions: NET, NIV, ESV, NASB, HCSB, NLT, WEB and YLT.

    Show of hands now, shall we use "by a sow of hands" or stick with "appointed" as the choice. So sorry Van. Appointed it is.
    ________________________________________________________
    In 2 Cor. 8:19 Van still insists that it should be rendered as "selected by a show of hands."

    The NET, NIV, Darby and Weymouth all have :chosen.

    The NLT, NASB, HCSB, WEB and YLT have :appointed.

    Is the manner of selection important or the fact of the selection? Yes, the latter. The meaning of the text remains clear and accurate without a show of hands.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. A word that means select by a show of hands, according to various lexicons, is said to mean what a majority of posters claim. As I have said, critical thinking is needed to study God's word.
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Please restate the above so that it is understandable.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that translations need to look at more then just the lexicons to determine how to render the words from Greek/hebrew into English, correct?
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    Your question suggests you did not read the OP, Yeshua1. You do realize it is a logical fallacy to try to determine truth by voting on whether something is true.

    Please list the steps you use to do a word study? I will help you, step one, pick up your NASB. :)
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    I had asked you before to reword the above. It doesn't make any sense.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    One of the disagreements within churches is "who selects the elders?" The top down, I am holier than thou, folks want to choose who serves, and at the other end of the spectrum are the "priesthood of believers" folks who believe folks are called to church leadership positions through the membership as influenced by the Holy Spirit. One claim, Elders were appointed, top down, by Paul and others, but deacons were elected, seems challenged by using a more literal translation of Acts 14:23.
     
    #8 Van, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2014
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone else follow what Van has said above? What is this "top down" business anyway?
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    Both top down and bottom up views believe God is in control. In the top down view, God speaks through the Church hierarchy and the hierarchy unilaterally appoints leadership. In the bottom up view, the membership, speaking as a group of indwelt believers, "by a show of hands" indicate the call of God according to His leading. Baptist polity is bottom up.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

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    When do you look at the greek text to see the construction and contex of the passage though?

    And are you again saying that versions like the niv/esv are essentially telling us wrong things due to poor scholarship?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member

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    How does that relate to how a bible version chooses to be translated though?

    or how word studies are done?
     
  13. OnlyaSinner

    OnlyaSinner Member

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    I could be wrong, but it seems likely that "select by a show of hands" should've had quotation marks added. Then the sentence seems fairly clear.
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    Please try to address the topic, and stop your efforts to change the subject. All translations contain flaws, some more than others. Or you still denying that truth?
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    A word that means "select by a show of hands," according to various lexicons, is said to mean what a majority of posters claim. As I have said, critical thinking is needed to study God's word.
     
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your lack of clarification. Let's break your sentence down.

    Various lexicons render a Greek word with a literal English reading as "select by a show of hands." Is that much part of what you want to relate? But your last phrase is left dangling. What "is said to mean what a majority of posters claim" as you so inelegantly worded it? These "word study" threads of yours have the participation of three on the average. I have no idea what you mean by "a majority of posters." And I don't know what "is said to mean" refers to.
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    You are the one arguing for a vote to determine the meaning. See post #2. It is unsound in my opinion. Many may consider your view to be a logical fallacy:

    Word Studies bring to light where versions hit the mark and where they miss the mark.
    The idea is not to quibble over this word or that word, but to bring to light that we can grow more aware of God’s Word by doing objective and unbiased word studies.
     
    #17 Van, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2014
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    On the one hand you have been claiming on these threads of yours that your renderings are in the mainstream. Then, in the next breath you declare that no other source has presented your desired reading. Will the real Van please stand up?
     
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member

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    "Word Studies bring to light where versions hit the mark and where they miss the mark."

    So sayeth Van. I say they do no such thing. You are so focused on individual trees (words) that you bypass the entire forest (the context in which the word is found).
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member

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    The disavowal of word studies by those who redefined words to fit an agenda are without merit.
     
    #20 Van, Aug 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 16, 2014
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