Would you leave

Well, first, I don't know and understand, and mean no disrespect, how Matthew 10:32-33 runs contrary to being a Christian in a situation where one is to lose his life AND his family's and the decision of many here to defend themselves.
Jesus Christ also said that among the signs that will follow His believers is that they will drink poison and not be killed.
Does that mean if someone laces our drink with poison and tells us he/she did it to see if we really believe what the Savior taught, we should propose a toast and drink ?
Then I remember Christ asking the disciples once how many swords they had and another said, "two", and He said, that is enough. This after some whom he sent out came back, and He sent them out telling them specifically among other things, not to bring swords.

I think it is error to condemn others both if they decide to cut and run, or to stand and fight. The guy who stood up to the gunman and talked to him about Jesus Christ is certainly worthy of emulation and admiration, but, hey, again, that was an "eyewitness" account and amounts to hearsay just like the supposed incident in the OP. It could've happened, then again, maybe it did not happen.

Like I said in my posts, my greatest desire in such a situation is to be able to stand and die in my Lord's Name, but, given the choice between saving tangibles (my life, and my family's) in a situation where all I have to do is to step out the door with them, or die along with them for a Name whose owner I know by faith, sometimes faith will fly out the door, and for it not to, you need all the grace and strength of the Holy Spirit.

Knowing my own weaknesses, how then can I condemn those who leave and be sure they will not live in misery when they do ?

 

I don't think most of us know what we would do, most have not had a gun pointed at them or have they been shot, not a good feeling. I think a lot has to do with the type of church or teaching that we have had or belong to. I was taught that death was my friend, it took me to the next part, with my Savior, so death isn't something I fear. But on the other hand I'm one of those Baptist talking about going to heaven, but not right now, later.

My weaknesses bother me much, when I think about them. I'm an excalvinist but I do believe as my father did and pointed out about Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, one isn't going to die till it is God's time for them to die. Jackson rode out there in the middle of battle not worried about death and when it came he was ready.

 

Just to be accurate, my brother in Christ, you should have said not everyone lives up to the standards of Jesus Christ given to us in scripture (that includes me as well, BTW).

That doesn't change the fact the standards/commands are there. And that doesn't change the expectations that our Lord and Savior has for His followers.

And there is plenty of cause to be sorry about that.

peace to youraying:

 

Persecution of believers is a major theme throughout Matt. The passage (10:32-33) deals with denying Jesus, which is what the OP asked about.

There is, however, many passages which speak of praying for your enemies and those who persecute you, never repaying evil for evil, trusting God and His sovereignty.

Jesus told Peter to put that sword away. His Kingdom does not come through force of arms.

I haven't condemned anyone since I have no authority to condemn anyone.

I can, however, compare decisions and actions to scripture and decide whether they are contrary or consistent with what God has revealed in His Word.

peace to youraying:

 

I guess I should have placed a rolling eyes icon after what I said, because that was how it was meant. I know Christ is the standard. I posted what I did because of what another poster wrote. I thought it was obvious. My bad.

 

Not to derail the thread, but though not white and southerner, I greatly admire this Southern gentleman and officer for his faith and courage. :thumbs:

 

Actually, it was my fault. I looked back and saw that you weren't directing your comments to me. Sorry about that.

peace to youraying:

 

I thought brother canadyjd's post was wonderful, and my comment was directed to him in support and agreement to what he had said and how he felt. It was not intended to, nor do I hold anyone to any kind of personal standard that I might have.

 

Glad that it doesn't happen in the USA. But what about other countries that happens in? As people have stood up for Christ, in order for others to gain Christ.

You know places are forbidden in other parts of the world, mainly third-world countries, that don't want to hear the name of God preached.

Here are two examples:

Ever watched that movie "The End of the Speer?" Where men were killed and their spouses and children go to the place to befriend those Indians that killed their husbands, fathers. As that had to be a very hard thing to do for them.

Or the Columbine thing where one of the shooters killed a teenage girl when asked if she believed in Christ and told him, yes she did. As he fatally shot her in the face?

 

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel.

I would rather die today with the name of Christ on my lips than to deny Him and live a thousand years. But for all the Bible tells us about losing our lives, and not loving our lives, we still have a responsibility not to be foolish with our lives.

It's one thing to be a martyr, like we're seeing in some parts of the world where people are being killed for their faith, but it's another to be throw your life away on what is essentially a schoolyard dare.

As much as I'd love to puff out my chest and say I'd stay, God has entrusted me with the care and responsibility of my family, as well, and I have to think of their safety.

Of course, if somebody burst into our church with guns, my wife and children know me well enough to hit the deck because I carry, even in church. If I can get a shot off without hitting one of the women and children in our church, somebody's going down.

I also know of two other men in our church who carry. Of the others, I know of at least a dozen men who, if they could not get the women and children out, would gladly shield them.

 

The whole premise of the thread is ridiculous. There is one answer and one answer only. Anyone who would not take out these people one second after the threat was made to your family is spineless.

Denying the Lord as shown in the Bible has nothing to do with this thread. We either do or do not deny Him in our everyday actions. We are either His or we are not. Common sense goes a long way.

 

I'd would leave, I'm not going to just sit there and get shot.

 

Or... they courageously embrace the truth of scripture.

The N.T. is full of commands to Christians not to abandon their faith in the midst of persecution.

peace to youraying:

 

But, can it be said that the senario of the OP is persecution?

Where I live, it isn't persecution but a crime in the making. I have every right to defend myself against a criminal, no matter what hooey they are spewing.

Now, if I lived in Communist China and was already thwarting the law by merely gathering with other believers, then I would have stand firm. but likely I'd known the consequences of being caught beforehand.

 

IMHO it would be persecution to be killed for standing firm for your faith in Christ. By not denying Him in this scenario that is what one would be doing.