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". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 8, 2017.

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  1. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Brother, I tried to show y'all that, though these Jews were ready to stone Him, and were NOT hearing his "voice" and were NOT his sheep, that Jesus invited THEM to "believe" down in verse 38. The point of the story is that you have to be a sheep to hear his voice and, in verse 38, Jesus tells them HOW to become sheep. Let's read it........

    John 10: 38
    But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    Brother, please tell me why Jesus would invite lost sinners, "non-sheep" to "believe" if he had no intention of saving them anyway?
     
    #101 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Because the Gospel call is universal, as we have said over and over and over and over again, but which you can't seem to remember.
     
    #102 TCassidy, Dec 12, 2017
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  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Its funny how cali's think god disingenuously offers salvation to those who He knows He will not allow to be saved.
     
    #103 Revmitchell, Dec 12, 2017
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  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    To fulfill all righteousness?

    Matthew 3
    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    HankD
     
    #104 HankD, Dec 12, 2017
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  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Can you believe God is only half a jerk that he actually forgave me when I expected him to forgive no one?

    Isn't it so shocking and amazing?

    " Can you imagine?! He set His love on me, the least deserving creature on the face of the Earth. . ."


    That it, its false humility at its worst. They can't even compute how they insult God.

    If God has a right to murder, then he probably "wants to" they say.

    God has a right to torture others, so he probably does Plus its righteous and good torture.

    If God can forgive everyone or forgive no one, then obviously God is not going to forgive some folks.

    They project their own evil attitude as the BASE for God's.


    God has the sovereignty to do anything he wants the absolute way he wants, he can pick any system, create anything, The punchline he is limited to ONLY DOING CALVINISM.

    He couldn't do an Armenian system if he wanted to.

    The best question to ask a Calvinist, to point out the utter lack of common sense:
    Could God do it another way if he wanted to? (not insisting how he is doing it)

    Could God effectively run an Armenian system if he wanted to? A catholic? A Muslim? Jewish?(not insisting how he is doing it)
     
    #105 utilyan, Dec 12, 2017
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Romans 9 answers your question.

    The gospel, like the seed in the parable of the Sower, is promiscuously proclaimed to all men; however, as you know, not all men place their faith in Christ. What we are debating is what or, better yet, who makes the difference. I see a scriptural basis for crediting God with that difference, while you place the credit on the side of man. At the end of the day, this is the disagreement. . .
     
    #106 thatbrian, Dec 12, 2017
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No one credits man with making the difference. That is a personal characterization and not a reality. Not an honest on either.
     
    #107 Revmitchell, Dec 12, 2017
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  8. Mr. Davis

    Mr. Davis Active Member
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    The Gospel call is universal. Don't some TULEPs also describe it as the "outward" call that goes out to everyone.
    And the "inward" call is for the elect only?
     
    #108 Mr. Davis, Dec 12, 2017
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    The "seed", in the parable of the sower, is the Word of God. The "ground" is the human heart.
    The "seed" is viable. Who makes the difference? The condition of the "ground" determines whether viable seed grows or whether it germinates at all.
     
    #109 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
  10. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    I could not agree more!
     
    #110 thatbrian, Dec 12, 2017
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I don't see a distinction (although some do). The call is the same. It is the response that is different. The lost reject it. The regenerate embrace it.
     
    #111 TCassidy, Dec 12, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, for unsaved/unregenerated soil is literally hard as rock!
     
    #112 Yeshua1, Dec 12, 2017
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that those who have ears will hear. Hear in the sense of being able to receive and believe in Him.
     
    #113 Yeshua1, Dec 12, 2017
  14. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    TCassidy
    TCassidy,
    You aren't "regenerated" until the Holy Ghost comes into your heart and makes you a new creature. Regenerate=new creature. And the Holy Ghost doesn't come in until you let Him in. That's how it works.
    Look here.....
    Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    Sir, YOU have to "open the door" for Jesus to come into your heart.

    Look at this too.......Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.

    EVERYBODY has an "everlasting door" because everybody is going to spend eternity in either heaven or Hell. So He tells EVERYBODY "lift up your heads ....gates and doors and "let the King of Glory" in.
     
    #114 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  15. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    That is correct. "Pride goeth before destruction", hard-hearted pride. Who makes us prideful? WE do. How do we lose that?
    Fall at the feet of Jesus with an attitude of "God be merciful to me a sinner".
     
    #115 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Spirit gives you a new heart/mind, and then you will receive Jesus and live!
     
    #116 Yeshua1, Dec 12, 2017
  17. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    That text has nothing to do with regeneration. Look at who it's addressed to, a church!
     
    #117 thatbrian, Dec 12, 2017
  18. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Soil changes itself? Can you defend that from the text in question, please?
     
    #118 thatbrian, Dec 12, 2017
  19. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Not until YOU "open the door" and let Him in.
     
    #119 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
  20. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    He used the word "regenerate" and I was addressing that.
     
    #120 SheepWhisperer, Dec 12, 2017
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