You can almost always see them coming...

Hello webdog.

Maybe so but why did you not answer the question?

john.

 

Hello All about Grace.

Keeping it in context it is all about 'all'. So you say, "Jesus could not be including himself in this word..." Is that your answer?

All have sinned does not include Jesus but includes the rest of mankind. It is not a universal word is it? All doesn't mean everone that ever lived but the all being spoken of.

We will await the proof that all does not mean all.

So you are not saying, "Jesus could not be including himself in this word..." But webdog does not answer.

Quite simply all does not mean all does it? All have sinned but Jesus means all have not sinned and your understanding of 'all' is at fault.

john.

 

Then all don't mean everybody that ever lived does it? That's all.

john.

 

I will not be baited into your word games. All means all according to context. If there is a group on my left and on my right and I ask all those on my left to follow me, this does not mean "all men who ever lived". When Jesus says that He will draw all men, it does mean all men.

 

Hello webdog.

There you are with your universalism showing because He says those He draws He will raise does He not? "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44.

john.

 

Even though Jesus draws all men, not all men accept him.

 

He says those He draws He will raise does He not? "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44.

john.

 

Since he clearly says "I will draw all men to myself", and since we know not all are saved, then we must conclude that not all who are drawn to him will be saved.

 

Salvation is in Jesus Christ but it was secured by His blood when He died on the cross and rose again. Salvation is secured not by me but by Christ. It’s much like the cash in the US is secured by the United States treasury not by me. I cannot have any of that cash secured by the US treasury unless I receive it.

 

I'll do it.

I got a postcard in the mail today (no lie - I am not making this up). I'd like to get your opinion on it. Here's what it says:

So, what do you think?

 

Well done Johnv ever consistent in denying the word. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. Those drawn will be raised up. You lose.

John 6:44.

john.

 

That title belongs clearly to you, since you deny what scripture clearly says, and imply what it doesn't say.

Where does it say that "all drawn" will be raied up? It doesn't. It says that those raised up are drawn, not those who are drawn are raised.

If you were correct, then either you're preachign universalism, or Jesus is a liar when he says "I will draw all men to myself".

Either way, it's clear that you're denying scripture yet again, and that you lose yet again.

 

Hello Johnv.

No where man.

No it doesn't you are right.

Yes of course silly of me.

To be honest with you I think I'm saying Jesus is a liar and I believe in universalism. Let's eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we are all saved.

Deny scripture? Of course I do old chap. Beaten by a better scholar that's all.

john.

 

whatever,

I think I know exactly waht you are getting at with All about Grace. Is the following long post correct in your point?

We hear from many pastors these days about all the methods they use to bring people to Jesus Christ.

They claim they want to promote only the truth.

In all reality the problem is that they are pulling the world into the church by the gobs.

The church does not need the world in it.

Their intent starts out as noble.....but as time goes on it ruins those in the church body.

It is the wheat among the tares....the sheep among wolves.

What they propose many times is just getting people in. They do not really care how they do it as long as they get people in.

Their method is "if we can get people in we can convert them".

So the call from the Church is everything other than "REPENT WRETCHED SINNERS TURN TO CHRIST".

Take a look at most signs, billboards, church bulletins, radio callings, and all the other things they use to call people in with.

It is nothing but a bunch of fluffy, cruddy, tickle the worlds ears stuff to get the world in.

These messages do not say truthful things like "You are all wretched sinners, turn to Christ for mercy".

Why dont they? Because these pastors, elders, and so many others do not want to offend the world. They are afraid of offending the world.

In the process they are not really speaking the truth......they are just enticing the world!

That is what I was trying to tell All about Grace. Donuts, coffee, potlucks, bingo, and all the other enticements are not what is needed.

The truth is what is needed. The simple gospel truth! The world will never come to it.....that is the fact of the matter. They will not want it.

But there are people of the world that will come to the truth.

There are people that will be convicted, shown their only hope, and willingly come to the truth that sets them free.

There are people that will come for NO other reason than the truth has found them and set them free!

These pastors think if we tell the world they are depraved it will scare people away...I say GOOD!

These pastors say that if we call people sinners right away they may not come......so dont tell them that they are depraved......they wont feel good about themselves. I say GOOD!

Maybe we should not feel good about ourselves.....after all.....we have sinned and our God has His eyes upon us!

These pastors dont want to tell them they are dead in sin and Christ is their only hope.......people do not want to hear bad things about themselves. They wont come.

Tell them all kinds of other things to get them in.......once we have them in, we will get to the truth when they are here among us. That is their idea and plan.

The problem is that once they get them (the world) in.....they still do not want to tell the truth lest they (those of the world) go away.....we do not ant to offend people now do we.

What you end up with is a church body JAM PACKED with the world and all its ways.

That is how most Churches are run now days....by the world.

Their tax exemption status robs them of speaking truth about many problems and concerns in and of the world we live in. They give up speech for money.

And they are managed no different than some worldly corporation.

Now we have people coming out of these churches just as lost, mixed up, out of truth, and ill informed as when they arrived........but the feel good and tickle ear garbage has stayed the same.

These are the people that profess to be Christians.....you will find that many of them have been saved and have never ever been lost.

They are the ones that have never been convinced that they are wretched sinners.....they are the ones that will always attribute some sort of good to themselves.

They were never lost and dead.......they only needed to see God and of course they are so good they would naturally find Him, choose Him, and come to Him, because they are so good really.

I have seen it over and over again.

It is a very sick situation.

Not all churches are that way mind you.

Anyways, I think you and I are on the same wavelength here.

God bless you whatever! KJB

 

STEEPLE SONG
by Don Francisco

I don't care how many buses you own
Or the size of your sanctuary
It doesn't matter how steep your steeple is
If it's sittin' on a cemetery
I don't care if you pave your parking lot
Or put pads upon your pews
What good is picture perfect stage
If you're missin' all the cues?

I don't care if your pastor's super-powered
And your program's always new
What you need is love and truth
And men are going to come to you
It doesn't matter that you know the Bible
If it's all just in your head
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Do you love your wife?
For her and for your children
Are you layin' down your life?
What about the others?
Are you livin' as a servant to
Your sisters and your brothers?
Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone?
Do the widow and the orphan cry alone?

I don't care if you pray for miracles
I don't care if you speak with tongues
I don't care if you said you love Me
In every song you've sung
It doesn't matter that your sacrifice of praise
Is loud enough to raise the dead
The thing I need to ask you is
Have you done the things I said?

Repeat Chorus

Lord, when were You a prisoner
That we did not come to You?
When was it that we saw You sick
That we didn't follow through
Every time you turned your head
And pretended not to see
When you did it not to the least of these
You did it not to Me

Do you love your wife?
With all you've got inside you
Are you layin' down your life?
What about the others?
Are you living as a servant
To your sisters and your brothers?
Do you make the poor man beg you for a bone?
Do the widow and the orphan cry alone?

Regards, KJB

 

Hi KJB,

I think you and I are on exactly the same page. I have nothing against donuts, coffee, potlucks, bingo, and all the other enticements, but it does seem to me that too often the glory of Christ gets obscured by all of the other stuff, and if that happens then all of the other stuff is useless, at best. At worst it is driving souls headlong into hell.

I was thinking about this today. I see lots of churches that no longer preach Christ, and Him crucified; but instead are preaching Christ, and Him relevant. That's no gospel in my Book.

 

KJB...very good post. right on the nose.

Amen Amen and AMEN!!

Worship is about GOD!!


In Christ..James