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You can be a Christian and deny essential doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Nov 6, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Just interesting that a VAST number of theologians agree with me, and only Wright and Arminians seem to with your take!
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I have been using the scriptures, as did all those people that I listed, and the PST has been held by a vast majority of Conservative reformed and Baptists since the Reformation, correct?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Again, its only mainly Arminians and those following Wright and His erroneous NPP that take your view!
     
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    What is astounding is you willingness to cling to a scheme irregardless of Scripture just because some notables who you might esteem as intellectually your superiors agree to that scheme.

    There would never have been a reformation with that thinking.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    My point is that those who are much more learned than I do agree that the Bible teaches that.....
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Or were such constrained by socio/political and educational background to hold that thinking?

    Thinking that because the socio/political and educational background are no longer a factor can be seen as not aligned with Scripture.

    Basic to the question is the priority of Scripture. If one clings to a teaching in spite of the evidence of Scripture, then that is like the worship of icons and idols.

    It is important to also recognize that Calvin followed the teaching of others more than developing his own thinking when it comes to limited atonement.

    So what guarantee is that they got it right? None
     
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    As a Particular Baptist I don't believe the blood was shed only for the elect. I believe Christ's sacrifice produced blessings to all people, and made the offer of salvation to all people possible.

    I believe the Atonement is limited in its application, not in its power, scope, or ability to save each and every person who ever lived.

    I believe the Atonement is sufficient for all and efficient only for those who believe. And most Arminians will believe the same. Arminians also limit the Atonement to believers only. :)

    Yes. Yes he does! As an Historic Particular Baptist I believe in Particular Redemption. That Christ saved me on the cross and nothing need be added to His finished work. :)

    When, in time, I heard the Gospel, was drawn by the Father to the Son, and regenerated by the Power of the Holy Spirit, He then gave me faith to believe, repent, and obey. All of Him. None of me. :)
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    None of those have used Scripture to prove the basis of their argument - Calvin articulated the Atonement within that specific language and theory was built on theory.

    I lean more towards Luther than Calvin, and more towards the Radical Reformers than Luther. But I can show you in Scripture what I believe. You cannot.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as there are general blessings and specific ones from the Cross!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I have over and over again, and yet you simply refuse to accept that God treated Jesus as he will all lost sinners in the judgement while upon the Cross!
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You have SAID that over and over again. But you have not provided a VERSE OF SCRIPTURE that states God treated Jesus as the lost at Judgment.

    You really don't see this, do you? Even after my request that you put those words in bold and your inability to do so you still believe those words are somewhere there.

    Like I said before, you are allowing tradition to blind you to what is Scripture and what is theory. You simply can't tell the difference.
     
  12. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    This is strange.

    “Nothing needed added to His work.”

    Yet, here is the list added:
    Hearing the gospel,
    Drawn by the Father,
    Regenerated by the Holy Spirit,
    Endowment of faith to believe...

    “Be not dismayed!”

    I do not disagree with a single item, nor the order given, for it is certainly Scriptural.

    That which I disagree is some supposed limit of the blood including the efficiency and effectiveness.

    Certainly, I can rationalize such thinking established as an attempt to placate the Arminius and the Calvinist in attempt to find unity, however, there is no Scripture support. It is at best a human endeavor that actually doesn’t need to take place.

    Take the blood, as Scripture states it as given as complete, and then place redemption as the Scripture does as limited to the authority of God.

    That resolves all issues of bias and continued strife under the standard of the Scripture, as the sole authority.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah screams that Jesus was the suffering Messiah, and that he took upon Himself the due penalty deserved by us as being law breakers.
     
  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 4:30 Pacific.
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Scripture chapter and verse?
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Isaiah 53, which leads right into Romans and Pauline justification!
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No one has denied that Jesus suffered, bearing our sins. It is your addition to what Isaiah screams that we were discussing.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is it that you believe that it would be unfair to have Jesus treated as if He was a sinner by God then?
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I know that the Bible teaches that Jesus suffered and paid for my sin debt owed to God in my stead....
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    And what verses? Can you quote it and explain it just a bit for us who may have a slightly different understanding of it than you do?
     
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