Your Talisman: Don't Leave Home Without It

[Aaron]

Little Evidence Supports Use of Cloth Masks to Limit Spread of Coronavirus: Analysis

Cloth masks are of little use against COVID-19, according to a recently published analysis.

While federal health authorities and a slew of jurisdictions require or recommend wearing masks as a way to limit the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19, a trio of researchers pored over the studies often cited by the officials and found they were poorly designed and offered scant evidence in support of mask usage.

Many of the studies are observational, opening them up to confounding variables, the researchers said in their analysis (pdf), which was published on Nov. 8 by the Cato Institute.
​

But this was known when masks were first imposed, as was matter-of-factly alluded to in the NEJM in an article questioning the efficacy of universal masking even in health care facilities.

We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

...

It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372​

 

[JonC]

Yep. I don't get why people buy/ make those masks. Effective masks are lighter, cheaper if purchasing, and less restrictive.

I hate wearing masks (I only do when required). But after a lot of trying to meet the minimum requirement I've come to realize it is just easier to get masks that work.

A bonus is they provide some (albeit not a lot) protection against radioactive contamination (PF10). So of there is an accident and I am not wearing a respirator at least I'll have some protection.

 

[Aaron]

 

[DaveXR650]

Wearing a mask should have never become a symbol of anything or a talisman - it's a spit catcher, nothing more, but it is a spit catcher. Schools around here can choose how they want to handle masking so some are and some aren't. The data is starting to show they may help some. We've had people quit our church over mask policies and come to the church from other churches over mask policies. This should not be.

 

[Wingman68]

Nothing says clown show better than a real clown. The question is….why would anyone who doesn’t identify as a clown…..actually vote for one.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

From what I've read, cloth masks show little benefit for blocking passage of tiny particles (thus not much protection for the wearer) but significant effect in reducing their exit velocity. When people are 6 feet apart that reduction matters little if at all. At 2 feet it will significantly reduce the volume of particulate matter striking the other person. That potential benefit is why I bring a mask with me, though at present I've worn it almost only where it's required.

 

[Aaron]

 

[DaveXR650]

Yup. Air can get out and in. That's why all the people saying your oxygen level gets low are full of beans. It's a spit catcher. Studies showing the pores in the mask are bigger than virus particles are also meaningless - based on what we know as of now free virus particles aren't floating around in the air - it's on droplets. So a spit catcher is of some help.

Early on, you couldn't get commercial masks in the hospitals. The masks were useful and required for a whole bunch of other stuff before Covid. So government officials tried to get folks to make homemade ones and some downplayed the importance to ease the supply problem. Some people do use them as a virtue signal. They shouldn't do that. Others try to link mask wearing with Nazi Germany which is not really helpful either.

 

[Aaron]

Yup. Air can get out and in. That's why all the people saying your oxygen level gets low are full of beans. It's a spit catcher. Studies showing the pores in the mask are bigger than virus particles are also meaningless - based on what we know as of now free virus particles aren't floating around in the air - it's on droplets. So a spit catcher is of some help.

Early on, you couldn't get commercial masks in the hospitals. The masks were useful and required for a whole bunch of other stuff before Covid. So government officials tried to get folks to make homemade ones and some downplayed the importance to ease the supply problem. Some people do use them as a virtue signal. They shouldn't do that. Others try to link mask wearing with Nazi Germany which is not really helpful either.

The gross droplets, the ones you can see, are stopped, but not the aerosols, which are the microscopic, airborne droplets (that condense on your glasses), and form a cloud around you when you're breathing are not stopped. And covid is airborne and is transmitted primarily in the air, not coughs and sneezes. Indoors, the virus is suspended for hours, meaning the six-foot rule is meaningless.

Sorry to break your idol, but masks in public and minus a strict protocol, impossible to observe outside specialized environments, are useless.

 

[DaveXR650]

I said the masks have some value and they do. The bigger droplets drop to the ground quickly so they came up with those 3 or 6 foot rules. Smaller droplets do escape the masks and they do carry virus. They dry and the virus can float. That's why outdoor and well ventilated areas are part of the precautions. Nothing is 100%. You do what you can and what is easy and possible. Your line of argument above is like saying "Well I'm not going to wear a motorcycle helmet because if I hit a truck head on it won't do any good." But it may do good if you drop it leaving the driveway. You play the odds - and you balance it with what is possible.

Since you don't know me, I should tell you I would not mandate masks anywhere unless the local hospitals are so overwhelmed that other folks can't get into the ER's. I haven't wore one for months. I keep one in the car because I am not going to hassle some poor clerk or waitress who is put on the spot and has to remind me or lose their job. You don't know me well enough to speak about my idols but I do appreciate your concern.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

I've read studies that indicate heavier COVID viral load exposure makes it less likely that the body can produce sufficient antibodies to reduce/prevent symptoms. Exposure, mask or no mask, will be greater from 2 feet than from 6. The same total amount of viral particles are in play but they're dispersed thru a greater volume of air with the greater distances, thus a lower concentration per unit volume one sucks in.

 

[JonC]

The gross droplets, the ones you can see, are stopped, but not the aerosols, which are the microscopic, airborne droplets (that condense on your glasses), and form a cloud around you when you're breathing are not stopped. And covid is airborne and is transmitted primarily in the air, not coughs and sneezes. Indoors, the virus is suspended for hours, meaning the six-foot rule is meaningless.

Sorry to break your idol, but masks in public and minus a strict protocol, impossible to observe outside specialized environments, are useless.

Except stopping the gross droplets increases the stopping power of the media.

Consider that paper masks do provide protection (a PF10 level...which is not very good but us resent nonetheless) against airborne alpha particles.

If masks only stopped some of the gross droplets then masks do at least provide some protection and the claim they provide none is misinformation.

With protection there is always a trade off between function and level of protection. You should know this.

 

[JonC]

BTW, I tried the "smoke-mask exeriment" (I smoke a pipe....my vice).

Does smoke escape? With my mask some does. With a looser paper mask more does. But even with the looser mask a lot of the smoke is stopped by the mask. So there is actually quite a bit of protection, but not 100%.

 

[Aaron]

Except stopping the gross droplets increases the stopping power of the media.

Consider that paper masks do provide protection (a PF10 level...which is not very good but us resent nonetheless) against airborne alpha particles.

If masks only stopped some of the gross droplets then masks do at least provide some protection and the claim they provide none is misinformation.

With protection there is always a trade off between function and level of protection. You should know this.

Gross droplets are not a significant means of viral spread in public. Besides, unless masks are accompanied other PPE like gloves, and by a rigid protocol where individuals do not touch their masks, or at least sterilize their hands or change their gloves each time they do, even the presumed protection of big droplet impedence is nullified. You should know this.

In otherwords, universal masking and mask mandates are not effective in impeding viral spread.

As I said, in the OP. This was known from the outset. But the propaganda and mandates came down anyway for one purpose, to divide us.

 

[Salty]

I was informed by a RN that while in surgery - medical personnel; while in surgery will change masks every 15 minutes.
I would assume that is correct info.

 

[JonC]

Gross droplets are not a significant means of viral spread in public.

Significant? So you are back-tracking on the erroneous conclusions masks do not offer any protection. Good.

The issue is the virus is carried in droplets.

Think of mercury as a vapor. How do we deal with this? We use stacks. Disbursement lowers the concentration of mercury. Is it still bad? Yea....it's mercury vapor. But is it still at a concentration that will harm us? Maybe, if you are on the stack, but normally, no. It is less due to disbursement and the nature of mercury in the overall vapor.

The goal of masks is to repent the virus in the droplets from becoming aerosol. Do they work? To a degree, depending on the mask.

But this is from the standpoint of the wearer being infected.

 

[Aaron]

Significant? So you are back-tracking on the erroneous conclusions masks do not offer any protection. Good.

Slander* much?

The issue is the virus is carried in droplets.

Think of mercury as a vapor. How do we deal with this? We use stacks. Disbursement lowers the concentration of mercury. Is it still bad? Yea....it's mercury vapor. But is it still at a concentration that will harm us? Maybe, if you are on the stack, but normally, no. It is less due to disbursement and the nature of mercury in the overall vapor.

The goal of masks is to repent the virus in the droplets from becoming aerosol. Do they work? To a degree, depending on the mask.

But this is from the standpoint of the wearer being infected.

Stahp. The vast majority of droplets are aerosols in your breath. It's what you see when it's cold. It's what you see condensing on your glasses. Masks are useless at stopping aerosol borne viruses from getting into the air and infecting others.

And yes, minus accompanying PPE and a rigid protocol, masks are useless.

*By your own definition.

 

[JonC]

Slander* much?



Stahp. The vast majority of droplets are aerosols in your breath. It's what you see when it's cold. It's what you see condensing on your glasses. Masks are useless at stopping aerosol borne viruses from getting into the air and infecting others.

And yes, minus accompanying PPE and a rigid protocol, masks are useless.

*By your own definition.

Slander? No I have never slandered. I am just glad you admit masks provide some measure of protection even if you think it insignificant.

I think most know that viruses are not expelled from a caugh independent of fluids. But I grant you are not most.

Let me you - since masks provide ome protection (PF 10....i.e., not good but better than nothing) against airborne alpha particles what makes an individual virus different?

A chainlink fence may not stop one golf ball hitting the space between links, but throw a bucket of balls at it and some will be stopped.

And anybody who uses a strainer realizes not all of the liquid passes quickly through.

But I suspect you know this and are just following your political shepherds. Good sheeple. Maybe they'll toss you a snack if you remain a good boy.

 

[Wingman68]

The Utter Orwellian Stupidity Of Masks On Airplanes

This Dr was on a 5 hour flight to Hillsdale, MI. Hillsdale is a tiny community here in Michigan, but Hillsdale College puts them on the map in a very big way. One small private college stands tall. Two of my children graduated University of Michigan…….I wish it had been Hillsdale, at least for the undergrad. Instead we visited places like Vanderbilt, live & learn……..