Featured A Skopos Version of John 17

I just want to deal with this phrase. It sounds kind of mystical.

Here is the NIV rendering at this point:
"...so that they may be brought to complete unity.

 

You have it backwards.

Here is Goodspeed for that section:

"for you loved me before the creation of the world."

The NIV reads the same way.

 

There is no need for your redundancy.

 

There is no need for the adjective. The word love alone suffices.

 

Thanks Mr Rippon, I am sure you did your best to offer thoughtful, constructive, and well reasoned comments.

 

Now that we have taken our first cut at translating the intended message more accurately, lets consider a few of the repetitive phrases. "Your name" appears several times.

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His view into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Just as you gave Him authority over all flesh so that He will give eternal life to those you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me alongside you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.
17. Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.
18. Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth.
20. Yet, I am asking not only for the disciples, but also for the ones who will believe into Me, through the disciples’ testimony.
21, So that they all may be one, even as you, Father, are in Me and I am in you, that they may also be one in Us, so that the world might continually believe that you sent Me.
22. And the glory which you have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one.
23. I in them and you in Me that they may be perfected into oneness with Us, so that the world may know that you sent Me and loved them just as you love Me.
24. Father, I desire that those you have given to Me be with Me where I am, that they may see My glory, which you have given to Me before the foundation of the world because you love Me.
25. Righteous and Just Father, the world does not know you, but I know you, and these disciples know that you sent Me.
26. I have made your name known to the disciples, and will continue to make it known; so that the sacrificial love you have for Me may also be in them as I am in them. ​

I once heard a sermon where the Pastor illustrated the meaning of "name" using the example, "Stop in the name of the Law." Now when a police person says stop in the name of the Law, what that brings to mind is that government authority does not carry the sword for nothing. The power and authority to use lethal force comes to mind.

When Jesus refers to "Your (the Father's) name, the divine majesty and power of Yahweh comes to mind. He is known as God Almighty, able to bring about whatever he pleases. But just how do we transfer "your name" from one Person to another? One possible view is the anointing of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Yahweh, and provides the power of God to accomplish His purpose.

Now lets back up and consider these verses:

In verse 6, Jesus says He revealed or manifested or made known "your name" to the disciples. Now Jesus was the perfect image of God. When you know Christ, you know the Father. But Jesus demonstrated more than that, He demonstrated via His miracles, the power of God to alter conditions and bring about promised actions, i.e. the lame would walk, the blind would see, and so forth. Thus at least one aspect of "your name" is the power to keep the promises of God's word.

Now in verse 11, Jesus asks the Father to protect the disciples by His name. Again, one possible view is Jesus was asking that His disciples be anointed with the Holy Spirit and Power, just as He was. And if that was His request, it was granted at Pentecost.

In verse 12, Jesus says He protected His disciples by "your name." Again, if we consider such actions as calming the sea by the miraculous power of God, the anointing seems again to be in view.

Now in verse 26, Jesus had promised the Helper, making known "your name" and of course via the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ, would continue to make known "your name."

 

Quote without comment:

1) I indicated my translation effort was more of a bible study than a translation. Thus expressing the purpose of translation, i.e. bible study.
2) I indicated my goal was not to teach JOJ, but for the edification of others.
3)

Returning to topic, John 17.

What was the idea of glorified in them or glorified by them, verse 10? I think the idea is that the disciples greatly esteemed Jesus, attributing glory to Jesus. Thus in their hearts, Jesus was glorified in them or by them.

 

Please stop your efforts to disparage me, JOJ. I did give that answer as to the purpose and goal of my contributions to this thread. My contributions are in line with the OP, John 17 translation choices based on the translator's purpose.

Returning to topic:

If you compare my translation choices with those of JOJ, what jumps out is the translator's understanding of what the intended message is affects his or her choices. And the more liberal, i.e. functional equivalency translation, the more the translator's views are imprinted on the translation.

 

If you compare my translation choices with those of JOJ, what jumps out is the translator's understanding of what the intended message is affects his or her choices. And the more liberal, i.e. functional equivalency translation, the more the translator's views are imprinted on the translation.

 

John 17:

1. After Jesus spoke these words, and lifted up His view into heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come, glorify your Son that your Son may glorify you.”
2. Just as you gave Him authority over all flesh so that He will give eternal life to those you have given to Him.
3. Moreover, this is eternal life – that they would know the only true God and Jesus Christ, the One you sent.
4. I glorified you on earth by finishing the work you gave Me to do.
5. Now Father, glorify Me alongside you with the glory I had with you before the world existed.
6. I revealed your name to the disciples you have given Me out of the world; they were yours, and you have given them to Me. They have carefully kept your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given Me is from you.
8. Because I have given them the declarations you have given Me and they took hold of them and truly understand I came from you and believe you sent Me.
9. I ask for these disciples, and not for the world, but for these you have given Me, because they are your chosen ones.
10. Both all mine are yours and yours are mine and I have been glorified by them.
11. These are in the world, but I am no more in the world and am coming to you. Holy Father protect them by your name, which you have given Me, that they may be one just as we are one.
12. While I was with them in the world, I protected, by your name, those you had given me, and none of them perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13. But now, I am coming to you, and saying these things in the world, that they might have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14. I have given them your word, but the world hates them because they are not like the world, just as I am not like the world.
15. I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from evil.
16. They are not like the world just as I am not like the world.
17. Set them apart in your Truth; your Word is Truth.
18. Just as you sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19. I sanctify Myself for their sakes, because then they may be set apart in Truth.
20. Yet, I am asking not only for the disciples, but also for the ones who will believe into Me, through the disciples’ testimony.
21, So that they all may be one, even as you, Father, are in Me and I am in you, that they may also be one in Us, so that the world might continually believe that you sent Me.
22. And the glory which you have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one.
23. I in them and you in Me that they may be perfected into oneness with Us, so that the world may know that you sent Me and loved them just as you love Me.
24. Father, I desire that those you have given to Me be with Me where I am, that they may see My glory, which you have given to Me before the foundation of the world because you love Me.
25. Righteous and Just Father, the world does not know you, but I know you, and these disciples know that you sent Me.
26. I have made your name known to the disciples, and will continue to make it known; so that the sacrificial love you have for Me may also be in them as I am in them. ​

 

And if I am not, then the whole post is yet another effort to disparage devoid of truth. Do a comparison and see for yourselves! Note that JOJ himself indicated his translation was using word for word methodology!!!!!!!

 

It is not your conjecture alone. It is generally accepted that that is the case.

The ESV ignores the common sense approach and gives and in super-abundance. I have a thread on that somehere called :And, And,And.

So, knowing what you know, why have you put "and" there as the first word in your sentence? The last English sentence (verse21) ended with a period. You could have just said :"I have given them the glory..."