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  #91  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:20 PM
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Andy Stanley:

"We are requesting that everyone watch the entire series: Christian. It concludes this Sunday. It's 8 parts. That's a lot of content to wade through. But I figure that's better than a sound bite or an interview."

http://global.christianpost.com/news...-stance-74262/

I understand where people are coming from. It seems by his emphasis of the adultery that he was ignoring the homosexual part. If he believes that homosexuality is wrong, why bother speaking about the adultery? The homosexuality would cause them not to be eligible to serve regardless of the one still being married.

So far, this is all I've seen from Stanley about the issue. Maybe he will clear things up in the 8th part.

Remember, this was a sermon. It can be easy to over emphasize something not realizing what it may be implying.
  #92  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Yes...I have listened....he is mis-guided....trying to "love" at the expense of truth.....all sex outside of marraige is fornication....the sodomites are 'in church" trying to serve??? they should be excommunicated until they repent.

It is not love to allow profane people in the assembly, Paul says put them out that they do not leaven the whole lump...1 cor 5
Wow...man that is all I can say. Listen if you actually believe this we just need to stop conversing about this. Church is for all people, regardless of what junk, baggage, or sin they are struggling with. The basic function of the church is to provide grace for all people equally because we all have sin and junk. I'm always so sad to see Christians make such terribly non-biblical statements like this.
  #93  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by preachinjesus View Post
Wow...man that is all I can say. Listen if you actually believe this we just need to stop conversing about this. Church is for all people, regardless of what junk, baggage, or sin they are struggling with. The basic function of the church is to provide grace for all people equally because we all have sin and junk. I'm always so sad to see Christians make such terribly non-biblical statements like this.
Sorry you do not believe the Apostle Paul's teaching directly on this:


It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Christians , not knowing the bible leads to watered down ,touchy feely garbage like these mega churches put out. Unrepentant sodomites are not in God's church...especially those who should be excommunicated.

Your statement above is a direct contradiction to biblical teaching. if you would read your bible you will see this:
Quote:
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
__________________
All that die have not the plague, and all that
perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are
excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.
  #94  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by preachinjesus View Post
Wow...man that is all I can say. Listen if you actually believe this we just need to stop conversing about this. Church is for all people, regardless of what junk, baggage, or sin they are struggling with. The basic function of the church is to provide grace for all people equally because we all have sin and junk. I'm always so sad to see Christians make such terribly non-biblical statements like this.
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Genius - to know without having learned; to draw just conclusions from unknown premises; to discern the soul of things (Bierce)
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  #95  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by webdog View Post
Where did Warren slander Mohler? Another unfounded accusation. Mohler's reply to Warren was pompous and arrogant. He needs to start worrying about the log in his own eye.

It is called sarcasim. I was responding to your claim of slander. You seem ti like the word.
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  #96  
Old 05-04-2012, 09:33 AM
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It is called sarcasim. I was responding to your claim of slander. You seem ti like the word.
Sarcsasm is not always picked up on these kind of forums, hence the use of emoticons. I had a hard deciphering your sarcasm through your obsession with Warren and Stanley threads (insert emoticon)
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  #97  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:35 AM
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Icon, agree with you here. It is not loving to accept and wait while fellowshipping as brothers while they are in open sin. Go and sin no more still means just what Jesus meant when He said it.
  #98  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:33 AM
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Icon, agree with you here. It is not loving to accept and wait while fellowshipping as brothers while they are in open sin. Go and sin no more still means just what Jesus meant when He said it.
Yes...we are to always bring the gospel to sinners..at all times in the public arena...Jesus came to save sinners That is why 1 cor 5 is very careful to point out....if any man who is called a brother...be a fornicator.......

Quote:
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Preachingjesus and QF.....are not seeing these verses correctly. We have a responsibility to put these people out.....in the hopes they will repent.
This is the biblical teaching. Anything else...is not the biblical teaching


This is not even debatable.
__________________
All that die have not the plague, and all that
perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are
excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.
  #99  
Old 05-04-2012, 06:37 PM
preachinjesus preachinjesus is offline
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Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Sorry you do not believe the Apostle Paul's teaching directly on this: (Quoting 1 Corinthians 5)

Christians , not knowing the bible leads to watered down ,touchy feely garbage like these mega churches put out. Unrepentant sodomites are not in God's church...especially those who should be excommunicated.

Your statement above is a direct contradiction to biblical teaching. if you would read your bible you will see this:
Well I reject your categorization of people struggling with sin.

I also reject your limited read of 1 Corinthians 5. Notice what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:10 "I did not mean the immoral people of this world or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world." Notice here the qualification from Paul. In our churches the world comes in. Well at least in the churches who are growing and care about bringing the Gospel to people. The reality is that even in your church you will have people who come in who are homosexuals, adulterers, racists, corrupt business people, theives, etc. What Paul's larger concern is how we welcome them into 1) membership and 2) leadership.

It is abundantly clear that we are to be careful about who is accepted into those two categories. What good is excommunication in a society that seeks grace? It does nothing and only reinforces the idea that the Church seeks to harm rather than help. We shouldn't be surprised that sinners don't understand our standards. We shouldn't be surprised they live outside of our standards Until they can see our grace and receive the charge of holiness imbedded in the Gospel then we cannot expect them to understand why they should live in a certain moral way.

Thus, when they show up to church we should be happy they are there. These sinners, as craven as they might be, are going out of their way to hear the Gospel and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. We should welcome them to hear such an opportunity. However, we should also be unremitting in our standards for membership and leadership.

To sit in judgment of people who are outside of grace is to assume the mantle of hypocrisy given to pharisees. We should never be about that. Our obligation is to present the grace of Christ to people who need to hear it and especially when they walk into our doors and communities.

Paul, and the rest of the NT, has no problem with the unrepentant who come into the doors of the church...the problem lies in the members and believers who should know better. This is the emphasis in Paul's exhortation in 1 Corinthians 5.

Notice his closing in 1 Cor 5:12, "For what have to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside church whom you are to judge?" When Paul speaks of "church" here (and elsewhere) he is not speak of individual assemblies but the larger, broader Church or the Body of Christ...that is believers.
  #100  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:29 PM
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[QUOTE=preachinjesus;1841052]
Quote:
Well I reject your categorization of people struggling with sin.
No...you reject pauls writing in 1 cor 5 because you miss what he teaches.You twist what I said. people outside the kingdom,struggling with sin...need the gospel...I clearly stated that.People who say they are brothers and then deny the faith as fornicators are to be put out.


Quote:
I also reject your limited read of 1 Corinthians 5. Notice what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 5:10 "I did not mean the immoral people of this world or the greedy and swindlers or idolaters; otherwise you would have to leave the world." Notice here the qualification from Paul
.

The qualification of verse 10 means we are to bring the gospel to those in the world.....not fornicators inside the church mocking the word of God.

Quote:
In our churches the world comes in. Well at least in the churches who are growing and care about bringing the Gospel to people
.

Any real church brings the gospel to those outside the kingdom.....letting unrepentant sinners into membership.....but if they are sodomites, then we cannot let them "serve" on one of the little teams...is not what paul was addressing.


Quote:
What good is excommunication in a society that seeks grace?
Jesus and the apostles taught that there is to be church discipline,and if need be ...excommunication. if you have a problem with that...then your problem is with scripture...not with me and others who obey this teaching

Also......what society is it that seeks grace???dykes on bikes?? mambla???
drug users????

if sinners come in from the outside...and they do....we welcome them and preach the gospel....exactly.....if they remain unrepentant...do we allow for unsaved ,unbaptized into membership......no...never

Quote:
It does nothing and only reinforces the idea that the Church seeks to harm rather than help.
Wrong...dead wrong....It is God 's standard that is witheld without compromise.....In this andy s situation....the man was adulterating his marraige ....to fornicate with a sodomite...then wanted to remain ,or re-attach to the church......he was not in any "society" seeking grace



Quote:
Thus, when they show up to church we should be happy they are there. These sinners, as craven as they might be, are going out of their way to hear the Gospel and be convicted by the Holy Spirit. We should welcome them to hear such an opportunity.
The two sodomites in this story were not coming for the gospel...they want to be accepted as sodomites.......to welcome them unrepentant is to send the wrong message completely.....much less to also infect ,or leaven the body as 1 cor 5 says.
Quote:
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Quote:
To sit in judgment of people who are outside of grace is to assume the mantle of hypocrisy given to pharisees. We should never be about that.
this false charge to those who obey 1 cor 5.....is a problem for you...with scripture...Believers are to judge righteous judgement jn 7:24



]
__________________
All that die have not the plague, and all that
perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are
excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.
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