Featured A False Teaching on Christ’s Satisfaction Exposed

Excuse me for saying so, but I think you are just being silly now.
The argument was whether "faith" was innate or given of God, intangible, etc., as SG believed. Look back at his quotes.
He said:

Faith in Jude 1:3 is not a "belief" in God, but rather The Faith in which we believe in as Gill so aptly defined it when he listed the various doctrines he believed in that made up "The Faith," as he would believe.
Whereas SG believes "faith" in that verse refers to "trust" confidence, etc.

It is not a matter of which doctrines make up "the faith." That was never what this discussion is about.
Obviously, I quoted Barnes, Gill and others to show that "the Faith" is a body of doctrine and not "faith" as in trust.

 

John Calvin

Charles Spurgeon

from precept austin site

John Gill

The faith contended for is from God, given to holy men. They are the ones who preach it, teach it, spread its news around. God works through the preaching, teaching, exhorting of it to quicken sinners.

 

Calvin said this (the part that you bolded)
the faith of Christians is not a variable quantity.

This refers to the Word of God which never varies. It has a definite "quantity" as in 66 books. Whereas a Christian's "faith" in Christ or otherwise is often up and down. Sometimes he is strong and sometimes not. It varies. But the Word never changes.

Spurgeon spoke about the importance of love when In all contending for the faith.
But he did not deny that "the faith" was the gospel or a body of truth which we believe. It seems fairly definite it was a body of doctrine, for he goes on to say:
There are some who "contend" against us.
That doesn't refer to trust but doctrine, teaching, "The Faith."

This doctrine is from God, for it is in God's Word.

 

DHK

No...you could not say the same thing at all. I examine as much teaching as I can and would never be so foolish as to say I cannot learn something new...That is unbelief and a failure to understand how God allows persons to believe in the first place....you have denied this often....you know how you say what we believe is "mystical". It is still a mystery to you:thumbsup:

God has saved me by his grace when I was not looking for it. This happens to many persons that God brings from light to darkness

I to borrow your wording.....would say that perhaps you are still in a realm of unbelief as you cannot grasp the basics of regeneration , but instead offer vain boasting about what you did....that others did not do....there will be no such vain boasting in heaven at all.

no...that belongs to you also.....remember...I once held firmly to dispensational error as you do now. I was not afraid to look at other teaching and am still open to it,unlike you who in unbelief declare no one can teach you.

You cannot show anything you offer that I do not respond to.....yet you have not listened to or responded to those I and others offer you.....still.

I read your posts....audacity has nothing to do with it. You repeat error everyday. Once in awhile you quote an orthodox person.....many times the quote does not agree with you....you do not understand Gill to well.

Oh yes I do.....as others have told you....it is not given to everyone to understand these things.....you surely do not....I get that, looks like many see the same thing.....I would list their posts for you again...but you will censor it again.....but you know what I am talking about don't you:laugh:

This is a diversion as Calvin did not formulate the 5 pts.
I notice not one of us brings him up...it is always you who do that:laugh:

You again try and deflect away the fact that it was you who said you cannot be taught anything, and the other day claimed your "church" is without error. It has to be infested with error:thumbsup:

This suggests you are not accountable to anyone...it reminds me of this;
3jn 1....vs9-10

everyone else thinks you are...

.

AA. has shown you wrong...the links I gave show you wrong

dead wrong

I have found that only the Cals are consistent and through.

 

Everything I posted, everyone I quoted, are in lock-step with each other. Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word. Romans 10:17 piggybacks from this monsieur. Having faith in God's word. God regenerates sinners via His gospel.

 

1. "Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word."
--I never denied such a statement. "for the faith" simply refers to that body of doctrine which we believe. At the beginning of this discussion I don't think you agreed with that statement.

2. "God regenerates sinners via His gospel."
I don't deny this either.

Now I can show you some that equate regeneration and salvation;
Others that say regeneration and salvation take place at the same time.

If the above are true, and as you said, "regeneration comes via His gospel," then the gospel precedes regeneration. If the gospel precedes regeneration then faith in the gospel must precede regeneration also. Regeneration and salvation are simultaneous. They can't be separated. One must be able to put their faith in the gospel in order to be regenerated/saved.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

 

Calvinist beliefs are only 500 years old. The church is 2000 years old, four times as old as Calvinism. I'll go with what the early churches believed.

 

Moses was a Calvinist

 

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
--The above is the heart of the Gospel.
Over and over again the Bible repeats "that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."
This is not only the theme of the Gospel of John:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is also one of the main purposes of his first epistle:
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It requires faith. It requires choice. It is repeated over and over again in the Word. And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse. Apart from a few verses taken out of context in John chapter 6, Irresistible Grace is not taught and flies in the face of the totality of Scripture. It, like the other points of TULIP, is absolutely contrary to the teachings of the Word of God.

 

The faith was 'pistis' in the Greek, monsieur. Faith comes by hearing God's word, yes. Yet, unless their ears have been enlightened, their heart transplanted by God, and their eyes open, the gospel goes 'WOOOOSH'.

Hallelujah.

Not I.

:thumbsup:

Yes. It does.

Gospel heard. God working through the gospel quickens sinners to life. Gospel then illumines and faith and repentance follow. It is that simple, mon ami.

Yes. It is.

Yes. Correct.

Uhhh, you have that backwards, monsieur. God quickens the sinner through the gospel. Regeneration is God's quickening the sinner unto life. This quickening comes with faith and repentance. Gospel, regeneration(faith and repentance comes along, too) and conversion.

Wonderful verse. :thumbsup:

 

Irresistible Grace--nope--not even one verse.
You live in Texas as far as I can see. Right?
So, if I am driving through that state, find out what your phone number is, phone you, and ask you if you would like to meet me for a cup of coffee?
Would you have a choice to say yes or no?
Or would that Irresistible Grace say you have to meet me, and you have absolutely no choice. God controls you like a puppet. That decision was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Because it was foreknown, it was decreed. You have to meet me. God has already decreed it. His grace is irresistible. You have no choice in this matter. That is how Calvinism works isn't it?
No free will--not even for a cup of coffee??

 

You are comparing the calling of God with calling up someone for a cup of java?

Look at the verses[passage] Protestant used to support his position:

Jesus did not kindly ask them, "Hey, would you guys like to come and follow Me? I will give you power to raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, give hearing to the deaf, and after all of that you will be slayed for My name's sake. Doesn't that just fill peachy keen?" He told them to "get up and follow Me and I will make you fishers of men."

Again, there was no asking, just telling them to follow Him.

Jesus never asked Saul's permission to shine that Light to him, causing him to fall off his horse. Jesus told Saul what needed to be done, and he did it.

 

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

Why yes it does.

This is where you run of the skids, monsieur. No one chooses to believe, no one chooses to have faith or reject it. People either have faith...saving faith...or they do not. Here are some verses you guys misapply.


But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”[Jos. 24:15] Boy that sure looks like an appealing choice, mon ami. "If serving the Lord seems undesirable to you", boy that sure looks like a free will choice. If serving the Lord seemed undesirable to me, I sure would not serve Him. Would you?

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.[Rev. 22:17] Here is another verse where the call is going out to those who are thirsty and who can gear the Spirit and Bride say 'Come!' Those who are not thirsty will never come and drink and those who do not drink will never have "Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[Jn 7:38] Those who drink of this water will "but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”[Jn 4:13b] The Spirit and Bride saying 'Come!' is not a questionnaire but a command. Those who hear and are thirsty will come and be filled.


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[Jn 3:16] Here is a verse that should not cause any problem, but it does. God so loved the world(the encompassing globe and not every single person who ever lived) that He sent His Son to die for those who believe. If He loved everybody the same, then there is no special love for His sheep. Where is this love as He is turning them over into the lake of fire? Where is His love while He is “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come."?Isa 63:3,4] Yes God is love. But who are those that truly love Him in a reciprocated fashion? It is those who We love because he first loved us.[1 Jn 4:19] Why do they love Him? Because it is thusly Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Those who love God are those that a) God has borne them of His love b) God first loved them. Now, if God truly loved everybody the same, then there would be none lost. Because if we love God we “If you love me, keep my commands."[Jn 14:15]

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.[Rom. 8:28-30] All of this is via God's working in sinners lives, monsieur.

He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.[Tit. 3:5] He saved us by His mercy. Also read Romans 9:16.

He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.[2 Tim. 1:9] Again, it was not because of anything we did, but what He did for us.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.[John 1:12,13] Again, nothing that man did, but what God did for man.


Yes, there are many verses supporting irresistible grace if you are truly willing to look for them.

 

These are wonderful verses dealing with the promise of God....for every single believing person.
Thankfully God's grace for His Covenant people is both effectual and irresistible.
In Acts 13:48 we see the results of those who were ordained to life.
In 2 tim1:9 grace was given to them before the world was.....in time this grace is quite irrestible as every single one of them comes to Jesus.

Yes......they exercise faith being made willing as psalm 110 promises.
Yes. ....they also choose Jesus because He first has loved His elect when they were unlovely.

Here is a hint for you DHK.....grace that is resisted...like the reprobate in Acts 7....is not IRRESTIBLE GRACE.......because it is always resisted. ....

Anytime anyone believes it is because like Moses...the people could do nothing, but stand still and see the salvation of God.

Are you saying that you have not experienced this irresistible grace yet. It.must be hard to deny it exists and yet experience what you do not believe????

 

You do know that calvinism does not teach that we are puppets though, as God is the One that saves us, but that we are all also accountible to him for our actions and deeds, correct?

 

DHK;

Nato not have either of these things.That is why God has to work in His people effectually:applause:

Yes God teaches this truth all over the bible. People who God allows can see it.
Others cannot see it....they can be religious but not savingly come to Jesus.

.

We see it everywhere in scripture...You must not understand the terms you are trying to use....let me help you-

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc10.html

1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ;

a]enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God;

b]taking away their heart of stone,

c]and giving unto them a heart of flesh;

d]renewing their wills,

e]and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good,

f]and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ;

g]yet so as they come most freely,

h]being made willing by his grace.

These men saw it and wrote about it for us.....very clear.

,

:laugh: No...as long as John 6 is in the bible...your futile objections are relegated to the garbage bin:laugh:

Interesting...that you know to mention Jn 6 in this discussion and yet seek to obscure it as you know it is fatal to your carnal reasoning......for 40 years you have missed the truth of this passage


All that the Father gives to Me.....SHALL come to Me.

All that are GIVEN.....COME

Jesus seeks and SAVES them......not one is lost.....That is wonderful. WHY anyone would attempt to resist this truth is insanity.

We look in EZK 34.....God tells Ezekiel His Divine perspective on redemptive history...God explains that He himself is going to irresitably save His sheep....

He is not going to try and do it...oh no...He is going to do it;

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more;

for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.

20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.

21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;

22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.

28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.

30 Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God.

31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God


If a person cannot see that all the action here is taken by God himself and it is effectually completed....they might need to be saved to have spiritual eyesight.