Featured Are there even biblical arminians posting On The baptist Board?

Oh, so Willis should listen to Calvinists who corrupt and redefine words?

I think Willis is WAY too smart to ever do that.

Regeneration literally means to be made alive AGAIN. Now, this is simple, a child could understand this. You must be alive ONCE to be alive AGAIN. That is also very basic logic that a small child could easily understand. The only persons who can't understand this are you Calvinists. You redefine regeneration to mean "generation".

I have shown you a hundred times, I'll show you again, Jesus said the prodigal son was alive AGAIN.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

I am sorry I have to over-emphasize the word "again" in this verse, but for some reason you are oblivious to it. You would rather listen to your scholars than the words of Jesus himself.

And just to make sure folks understood this, Jesus said it twice.

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Sorry to over-emphasize the word "again" once again, but if Jesus over-emphasized it, so can I. Perhaps he foresaw you Calvinists who would come along centuries later?

You just go on and believe Augustine, I will believe Jesus.

 

Willis,

The spirit/soul comes from God who gave it. It returns to God.

,

God has said that all died in Adam. he does not give a step by step description of how this is passed down...just that it is so.

Why would you make such an evil statement Willis. We are not made like a camera with a sinful SD card in our brain. God does not make anyone sin. They sin because they are sinners:

That is what God says. The psalmist does not say....you have made me sin. we our sinners because of Adam and Eve.
3) If one is born spiritually dead, then how can someone/anyone be made alive again, a la regenerated......which means to be made alive again?

Until you stop thinking that God is in anyway responsible for our sin...you should not engage in the discussion as you and these others insist on refusing the clear teaching of romans 3, and romans 5.

You and you alone are drawing this wrong conclusion. I will not ever say or imply that God is the author of sin. That is just wicked. I start with the biblical presupposition that God is perfect in Holiness. All biblical calvinists do.

Willis....my opinion, or your opinion are useless. What God's word says is what matters. i can only offer what the scripture calls revealed truth according to the analogy of faith. I want to think God's thoughts after HIM.. My thoughts apart from Divine revelation are useless.

 

Nice copout winman....
show any supposed greek scholar who teaches any different here...go ahead..post it...

No....you and Hos just cannot face the fact of what the scripture teaches here and in other places...you have no answer....just error...so you attempt to dis-credit the truth but we are not buying it:thumbsup:

 

There you go fellas, you think you can have a reasonable debate with these Calvinists. How did that work out? Iconoclast accuses you of making God the author of sin when it is his doctrine that makes God the author of sin.

You are not going to get an honest debate from these guys, they will always use dishonest and unethical tactics like this. This post is a perfect example of that.

They think folks are fooled, but no one is.

 

Willis,
you did not respond to this:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
Willis,

I cannot agree to your idea ,as I believe it is unbiblical in several ways

In your idea...men are born spiritually alive.


That would mean they are born indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
That would mean they lose salvation when they commit and act of sin.
that would mean they were not sealed with the Spirit like Eph 1 says.
that would mean romans 3 :23 does not say this as i posted to Winman:


Quote:
8 The use of the aor. in both Romans passages, in their given context, point to an event, i.e., mankind did not simply inherit a sinful nature or tendency from Adam—“all have sinned,” thus referring to personal experience and activity,


but “all sinned” in an event, a point in time (Rom. 3:23, pa,ntej ga.r h[marton kai. u`sterou/ntai th/j do,xhj tou/ qeou/. “For all sinned and are subsequently constantly coming short…”




Rom. 5:12, …diV e`no.j avnqrw,pou h` a`marti,a eivj to.n ko,smon…evfV w-| pa,ntej h[marton. “by one man sin entered into the world…for all sinned.”). Every human being is a sinner by imputation, nature and personal activity.

 

winman.

No need to lie winman....I just quoted what willis said....

right here:

 

Baloney, you twisted what Willis said.

I trust Barack Obama more than you.

 

You cannot respond to what was posted except to attempt to discredit the teaching offered. Which comes as no surprise as if you avoiding the posts correcting your non stop error...will somehow not show the truth to stand in contrast to your undermining of those truths:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You have no answer ...so you divert away from scripture...yes we understand:thumbsup:

 

I don't divert from scripture, I post scripture constantly to support my views. It is you that posts the writing of men who try to tell us that scripture does not say what it obviously says as HoS pointed out.

You yourself twist scripture, you said;

This statement of yours is absolutely false, the scriptures no where say all men died in Adam. The only time "in Adam" is said in all of scripture is in 1 Cor 15:22 where it says in Adam "all die".

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The scriptures do not say all men died (past tense) in Adam as you falsely teach, the scriptures say in Adam "all die" (future tense). You twist scripture. For a man to "die" he must first be alive. This verse actually refutes Calvinism, but you like many others misquote it and misrepresent it.

I have also seen many Calvinists use this verse to speak of spiritual death when it is speaking of physical death only. The entire 15th chapter of 1st Corinthians deals with the resurrection of our physical bodies, not spiritual death.

Calvinists also misapply Romans 5:12 to be speaking of physical death when it is speaking of spiritual death. Calvinism nearly always interprets scripture to mean the exact opposite of what it truly says. You are not yet aware of this, but perhaps someday you will see it is true.

Your explanation of Romans 7:9 is that Paul did not really mean what he said. You do not even address the scriptures I showed you in Luke 15 because you cannot possibly explain them. You know this so you conveniently ignore them.

Maybe simple Calvinists like you are fooled, I am not.

 

Wouldn't it be good if there was a church where these differing views would be allowed?

I have come to regard Icon as a friend, and I would not want to see him rejected from a church i was in, even though our views are opposite on some things.

 

No need to. Brother HoS said it better than I ever could.

 

Agreed. Now, if it comes from God good, then what makes it bad at conception? Sin is breaking God's command(s). What sin did the soul commit at conception to turn it from bad to good?

BZZZZ! Wrong! In Adam all die.

Please go back and reread what I posted. I never stated this. You misquoted me here.

I agree with what the psalmist said. I just disagree with what you said.

Please go back and reread what I posted. I never stated this the way you are accusing me.

You are drawing the wrong conclusion from what I posted. Please reread it.

Opinions don't change the truth. But it tells us what each other believes.

 

You know very well I believe all men are born upright, I have posted it a hundred times.

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

I have posted this verse dozens, if not hundreds of times. You know that perfectly well. What is wrong with you? How many times does a person have to answer you before it registers in your brain? If you are a representative of Calvinism, then Calvinism is in serious trouble.

No, you know perfectly well what I believe, you just play stupid. You do it well.

Jesus was the same as every human, I have showed you this scripture dozens of times as well. The only difference is that Jesus never chose to sin.

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Scripture says Jesus was made like his brethren in ALL THINGS. What part of "all things" do you not understand?

Jesus did not sin because he chose to be obedient to his Father and never sin, not because he was unable to sin. I have also shown you scripture where Jesus implied he had the ability to lie.

Jhn 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Jesus said "IF" he should deny that he knew his Father, he would be a liar. The word "if" denotes possibility. Jesus had the ability to sin, but chose never to sin.

Now, before you forget and ask these same exact questions next week, print out these answers I have given you. When you forget in 3 days, remember this copy and read it. Your dumb act is getting old.

 

Again Calvinism shows to the world how corrupt and dishonest it is, when did I ever say Jesus was not God? You can't possibly show that, because I never said or implied any such thing.

Just as Iconoclast intentionally misrepresented Willis, you intentionally misrepresent me. You guys cannot win an honest debate, so you must resort to dishonest tactics. Despicable, but I know you have no shame.

As Jesus said;

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Anybody who thinks they can hold an honest debate with Calvinists is deluded.

 

Jesus IS God, but Jesus came in the form and nature of man. He was able to be tempted, which God in heaven cannot be. Jesus could have chosen to sin but did not. The scriptures say he was obedient.

Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus was not a programmed robot without the ability to make contrary choices. He was found in the fashion of a man and could choose to either obey or disobey his Father. Jesus chose to always obey his Father and therefore never sinned.

I have already showed you John 8:55 where Jesus said that "if" he denied he knew his Father, then he would be a liar. The word "if" shows that it was possible for Jesus to deny his Father.

I am not denying that Jesus is God at all. But Jesus came in the flesh. Any man that denies Jesus came in the flesh is the spirit of antichrist.

You don't get it, Jesus had to be exactly like us to redeem us and save us from sin. He had to choose to obey where we chose to disobey. He had to endure temptation and be victorious over it where we failed.

If you don't understand my view, then ask questions, but don't intentionally misrepresent me as you have done.