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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 10, 2014.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 8:15 Nasb
    For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

    pretty much derails van here!
     
    #21 Yeshua1, Jun 16, 2014
  2. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    I don't think it derails him, because it cannot be separated from verses 14, 17, 23 and on through chapter 11.

    We are also told that we are given the Spirit as a pledge of our inheritance. I have a different view from Van, but not polar opposite.

    He makes some very valid points, you should watch in as he and I toss it around a bit, and if we can get Percho to offer some commentary that was ties his one liners together
     
    #22 JamesL, Jun 16, 2014
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No, I did not write that nor suggest that, nor anything close to that. I said at Romans 8:30 our "glorification" is past tense, something that has already occurred in some sense, and does not, repeat does not, refer to our future adoption as sons at Christ's second coming. In our future adoption, we will be clothed in immortal glorified physical bodies.

    Bottom line, I said we have been, in the past gloried spiritually when we were put in Christ and we will be glorified physically when we are clothed in glorified bodies at Christ's second coming.
     
    #23 Van, Jun 16, 2014
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As Yeshua1 knows, when we receive the "Spirit of Adoption" it is the Holy Spirit, given as a pledge to our inheritance, with a view to our future redemption as God's possession. Thus the "Spirit of Adoption."
     
    #24 Van, Jun 16, 2014
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We receive Him due to us being adopted by God as His Son/daughter, not given Him to have it rendered in the future!
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Jun 16, 2014
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God ONLY has adopted children, and those who right now have ternal life and the sealing by the Spirit are those children!

    If you were not adopted by Him, you are illegitimate, and not one of his own!
     
    #26 Yeshua1, Jun 16, 2014
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi JamesL, as you can see, Yeshua1 simply wants to post his bogus doctrine, irrespective of scripture. I am not planning of responding until he explains why a person born into a family needs adoption and without adoption is illegitimate. He does not have an answer. God caused me to be born anew, and as such I cry out Abba Father.
     
    #27 Van, Jun 16, 2014
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NONE of us were natural children, ONLY jesus was begotten eternally by the father, so ALL others were adopted into His family as his children!
     
    #28 Yeshua1, Jun 17, 2014
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Is it not that we are given the Spirit of adoption V17. And it is this Spirit of adoption that brings about the glorification to the mortal body V11 which is the redemption of the body, the adoption V23 at the appearing of the Lord our blessed hope V's 24,25 and elsewhere for blessed and appearing?

    Just as Christ who through the mortal flesh died yet his flesh was made alive incorruptible by the Spirit his regeneration?
     
    #29 percho, Jun 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2014
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not planning of responding until he explains why a person born into a family needs adoption and without adoption is illegitimate.
     
    #30 Van, Jun 17, 2014
  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    My understanding of the past tense of V30 to be the past tense of predestined
    in Christ.

    As Christ was foreordained before the foundation of the world for death and receiving the promise of God also before the foundation of the world it was predestined for some to be glorified as Christ who will then be firstborn from the dead of many brethren.
     
    #31 percho, Jun 17, 2014
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    MANY things happen at same time once we get saved, including adoption, sealed with/by the Spirit, united with Christ/predestined unto glorification, brought into a Covenant relationship with God etc!
     
    #32 Yeshua1, Jun 17, 2014
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God knew those whom He prfedestined to receive eternal life in Christ, as his knowing is not just mental awareness, but a direct causing of the relationship!
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Jun 17, 2014
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not planning of responding until he explains why a person born into a family needs adoption and without adoption is illegitimate.

    No answer will be forthcoming. :)
     
    #34 Van, Jun 17, 2014
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When are sinners reborn into the family of God?

    When they have received jesus thru faith in him and His work, and at THAT moment received the sealing of the Holy Spirit, which adopted us into the Body of Christ!

    We CANNOT be Children of God apart from being adopted by Him first!
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Jun 18, 2014
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another shuck and jive answer, claiming that when we are placed spiritually in Christ and made alive together with Christ, being spiritually born anew, we are not really children of God "born of God."

    Yet another Calvinist rewriting the text to pour their man-made doctrine into the text. Folks, if you want to know what God says adoption refers to, read Romans 8:23. Notice it does not say "the final phase of adoption having been adopted at conversion." You might expect the ESV translators to rewrite Romans 8:23 anytime soon, to change yet another verse that teaches Calvinism is mistaken doctrine.
     
    #36 Van, Jun 18, 2014
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Right NOW we have the adoption, and have ALL spirotual blessings in Christ, but the fullness of us expereiencing all that when be when glorified!
     
    #37 Yeshua1, Jun 19, 2014
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another Calvinist post, shouting doctrine devoid of truth. Right now, if we are born anew, we have all the spiritual blessings in Christ, including, past tense being glorified. But we eagerly await our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies, at the second coming of Christ. Romans 8:23.
     
    #38 Van, Jun 19, 2014
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