Featured How did the Apostle Paul get it so wrong?

Will, "you," whatever, "you," is, be in that special presence with the Lord, when, "you," die or when, "you," receive your house which is from heaven?

What and when is the manifestation of the sons of God?

Is that when, "you," will be like the angels unable to die anymore?

Will it not be that Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God that changes/quickens your mortal body for this purpose? from 1 Thes 4:17 and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Whether one be dead or alive?

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?


Was the first man Adam the described man? Was it going to be the first man Adam who was going to be the heir of God or was it going to be the last Adam, who would come in the figure of the first man Adam who would be the, Son, the heir of the Father?

The Son in whose image we could be conformed as joint heirs, thereof?

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor 15:46

On which side of that statement did Jesus born of woman become the inheritor or all things.

Was not the first man Adam created subject to something in order that the last Adam could come in the figure of the first Adam and destroy that which the first Adam was subjected to?

 

You are failing to see WHERE this clash occurs between two indwelling law's and WHAT they are clashing over to control.

Notice that Pauls ways to "will is present with me" but power to administer the law of God by the will through the body is not present. The will is represented in "I would" verses "would not." Thus, the saved man is volitionally inclined to choose good but without power behind that inclination to administer good through the body. Thus the "will" is hijacked by indwelling law of sin and brought into its service to do evil through the flesh. Hence, the will is the battle ground.

Second, the "mind" is the battle ground as the law of sin working from the body is WARRING against the the Law of the mind, preventing that law from operating through the body. In another place Paul says the law of sin is "warring against the soul".

Third, the affections are the battle grade. The affections "delight" in the law of God after the "inward man" as indwelling law of sin produces through man what Paul says "I HATE."

The soul of man is the seat of self-consciousness - intellect, will and emotions and that is the battle ground between the "law after the inward man" and "my members."

The spirit refers to the inner man or as typified by the temple the holy of holies where God actual exists in "righteousness and true holiness" because it is born of the Spirit (Jn. 3:6). If you will remember, it is the holy of holies where God not only existed but where the Law of God written on tablets literally existed. This is the type of the "inward man" that the soul (intellect, will and affections) are commanded to "put on" in the affections, will and intellect by the power of the indwelling Spirit of God.

The outer court symbolizes the human body that all can see.

The holy places symbolizes the soul of man where all the daily worship occurs unseen by the world. It is the soul that prays (altar of incense) and feasts upon the bread of life (the Word of God) in the light of the candlestick (rational discernment by the Spirit).

God moves from the innermost holy of hollies to the outercourt (manifest by shikinah clould of glory). Sin moves from outer court inward. The holy place stands between where God dwells (holiest) and where sin dwells (outer court). The outer court of the body has not yet been cleansed from indwelling law of sin. However, the holy of holiest has been fully sanctified by the presence of God as His sanctuary where the law exists and thus the "inward man" renewed by a creative act in the "image of God" in "righteousness and true holiness."

What regeneration does is perfectly sanctify the "spirit" of man while permenantly changing the ruling inclination of the soul toward righteousness. However, the new birth does not provide the POWER to enforce that inclination as it can be overruled by the law of sin EXCEPT when empowered by the indwelling Spirit of God.

 

God who moved Paul to write what he did is correct. Man has been lying to people for years with the false teaching that Christians can backslide into the practice of sin. If a persons habit (practice) is sin at any given time in their life they are not saved according to scripture, (1John 3:9)

 

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
A.T. Robertson comments on this verse:

Every one sins. We don't believe in sinless perfection or entire sanctification.
However some of the scripture posted previously to this would infer such a doctrine. If one is completely "dead to sin," then he would never sin.
Some think they are dead to sin; that there is no such thing as a carnal nature. But the fact is we do struggle against sin; our sinful nature; our old or carnal nature. The same person who wrote 1John 3:9 also wrote:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
--He wouldn't have written that if we didn't have sins to confess. We wouldn't have to confess sins if we were always dead to sin. Therein lies this theological problem being discussed in this thread.

 

I am not sure why you felt the need to respsond to my post since I never said anything you responded with.

 

I've never met anyone that can convolute the simple as magnificently as you do.

So tell me plainly, how many players are in this 'war' of Ro 7, THREE? TWO? FOUR?

 

Will the inner man, ever fully become the outer man and or the man in the resurrected image of Christ and will we not until death or that time have the struggles Paul was speaking of even through we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit?

Is that not the same thing Paul speaks of in Phil 3:11-14? If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

I believe Romans speaks of two players and the dividing line is: O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:24


The man before the blessed hope of Paul takes place and the man after.

The man who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit being flesh, carnal will sin and need to confess that sin. The man after the glorious appearing of Jesus, will not sin and will be delivered from the body of death. See R 8:11

 

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here it is plain to see that there is only person. His name is Paul, and he is giving his own personal testimony.
It is Paul who says he has two natures.
It is Paul who says that with the mind he overcomes by serving the law of God.
It is Paul who says that he will suffer defeat by giving into the desires of the flesh, that old sin nature, and obey the law of sin instead of the law of God.

These truths are self-evident: one man--two natures.

 

Do you have a problem with ONE God manifest in THREE different aspects? If not, why do you have a problem with ONE man manifest in THREE different aspects?

Paul is ONE man whose seat of self-consciousness ("I" the intellect, will and emotions) that has two opposing laws competing for control of conscious self. The "law of sin" dwells in his members. The "law of God" dwells in his "inward man." Look at his words carefully "I" delight in the law of God AFTER THE INWARD MAN. He is distinguishing the ego or seat of self-consciousness from the "inward man" both of which share the same "delight."

Man is a threefold being (1 Thes. 5:23; Heb. 4:12) made in the image of a threefold God. Salvation is a threefold process, with three tenses having to do with the three aspects of man.

This is simple stuff, not complicated at all.

 

What do you mean "fully redeemed"? The principle of corruption reigns over the flesh and will until death or resurrection. The law of sin has not been removed from the body and never will be removed except by death or transformation at His coming. God does not treat the WHOLE PERSON as redeemed except according to purpose and position. Spiritual union is namely that "spiritual" and the last time I checked the human body was not "spiritual" or in spiritual union with God but with the "law of sin." Indeed Paul characterizes his body as "THIS BODY OF DEATH" not "THIS BODY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS" so Paul does not view HIS WHOLE PERSON as fully redeemed from sin IN TIME AND SPACE only by purpose, spiritual union and positional justification.

This is a HALF truth! This is true as far as the regenerated spirit and positional justification. Spiritual union has to do with the human spirit NOT THE BODY. Christ said one must "die DAILY" and so did Paul. The whole passage of Romans 7:14-25 is that the WHOLE MAN is not dead to sin, has not been crucified but is so much alive that it conquerors the soul of the redeemed except by a conscious act of being filled with the Spirit.

Paul is ONE person with TWO laws operating from TWO different aspects of his human nature warring against the seat of self-consciousness ("I" affections, will, intellect). He plainly tells you that the law of sin is operating from "my member" "the flesh" "this body of death". He plainly tells you that the law of sin from that aspect of his human nature is warring against the Law of God after the inward man. Here are TWO different aspects of human nature spelled out in clarity IN OPPOSITION TO EACH OTHER in regard to spiritual warfare.

He plainly tells you that "I" the conscious self, which is further defined as the "will" (v. 18) and his affections, and his "mind" are the battle ground for control by these two internal opposing laws.

 

I have a problem with this 'war' of Ro 7 being something different than the conflict described in Gal 5:

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would.

The "I" is the regenerate "I", not the unregenerate "I". I reiterate from post #87:

12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Cor 2

Oh, I know it is, you just take 10,000 words to articulate what could be said in ten.

 

Do you really? Do you believe the future tense "who shall deliver me from THIS BODY OF DEATH" is a present tense reality/crisis of every child of God?? OR do you believe the body is already redeemed from death?

 

Romans 7:14-25 identifies the location of these two principles at enmity with each other. The Law of sin base of operation is "my members" "the flesh" and "this body" all being one and the same.

The soul of man is the field of battle over which there is competition for control by both opposing laws.

The soul of man or the self-conscious "I" delights in the law of God AFTER (Gr. kata "in keeping with" or "according to") the inward man rather than saying "I delight in the law of God AS the inward man."

If your view were correct he would have merely said "I delight in the Law of God" or "I, the inward man delight in the Law of God." But he does not say that.

Of course the Spirit of God is given to all the elect. But it is the human "spirit" that is born of the Spirit and the Bible clearly distinguishes between the human "spirit" and "soul" in 1 Thess. 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12 explicitly and directly, and in many other places by inference.

Yes, I realize I am too wordy. That is a struggle for me, but I am working on it.

 

Is this 'soul of man' something that ALL men, regenerate or not, have?