Featured Is Cal/Non-Cal important enough to divide?

Gospel is that Giod sent forth his Only begooten sin, to die as an atonemnt for sinners such as you and I...

Whosover believes on him has Eternal Life, he who does not, wrath of God abides on him...

Cal/Arms/non cals all affirm this, we severly disagree on just who are the "whosoever?"

 

Some may wonder how we Cals co-exist with the non-Cals in my church.

The answer is that we agree more than we disagree.

For instance:
Do both sides agree that all have sinned, and that the wages of sin is death?
Yes

Do we believe in Holy Spirit conviction of sin?
Yes

Do we both believe that the Holy Spirit draws sinners?
Yes

Do we both believe that the Holy Spirit illuminates our minds and helps us see truth regarding our relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ?
Yes

Do we believe that the lost are saved through the foolishness of preaching?
Yes

Do we both believe that salvation is through repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ?
Yes

Do we both believe that we are commanded to share these truths with others?
Yes

Do we both believe that a sinner, once saved, cannot be lost again? That God is able to keep those who have committed to him?
Yes.

Do we both believe that God is sovereign?
Yes

Do we agree that there is such a thing as election?
Yes

Is our message to the lost the same for both views?
Yes, God commands us to repent. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

Do we agree on the basis of God's election?
No, but see how far down the list this question is?

Do we agree on the extent of the atonement?
No, but how does that change the message we both are commanded to take to the lost?

I think now you can understand why we Calvinists and non-Calvinists work together, fellowship together, worship together and witness together in our church.

 

OK then get complicated & define it further...drill down to the nuts & bolts of your your belief system. Give me some meat instead of Pablum.

 

Amen, brother! Why do some persist in setting up false dichotomies?

 

Which is where you put it on your list. Some Cals would place it first and make it a serious point of contention and then judge anyone who does not hold to the same thing by suggesting non cals do not preach the gospel because they do not hold to the same false view of election.

 

I'm on an iPhone and they're not exactly appropriate for typing a monograph on a discussion board. Besides, you'll come around eventually. They always do, sometimes not till heaven, but eventually you'll get there!

 

How do you address this, Yes or No is preferred... Is salvation by grace alone?

 

In my previous post (#42) I may have left the impression that the views held by Calvinists and non-Calvinists are not important.

In fact, they are not inconsequential. The differing views held by each side may directly affect how we carry out the Great Commission.

But each church must determine for itself whether it wants to fight over these issues.

Let me tell you our church does not.

Thirty years ago, our church voted to relocate from the south side of Paducah to a tract of land on an interstate interchange. The majority approved, but it was not unanimous. When we finally moved in 1986, a significant number of members did not go with us. They "relocated" to other churches.

And although the exodus left our church united and of one mind (which has basically continued to this day), it left pain and scars. Many of us vowed we'd never go through another church fight unless it involved fighting heresy.

Unity in a church is precious. When you have it you'll work hard to keep it.

Our church is unified. I won't be part of any effort to divide it over Calvinism. Now you know why.

 

My pastor is not a Calvinist, but is as biblically solid as any pastor I have ever had. The gospel he preaches is the same gospel I believe.

Let me add this. If a Calvinist wants to make this an issue in his church, he'd better be prepared for the consequences. Does he really believe that it's worth losing a bunch of members? Does he really believe it's worth dividing the congregation? Does he really believe his efforts will result in a Calvinist church?

He'd better know those answers before starting the fight? To start the fight, divide the church, run off members, and lose the battle anyway just doesn't make sense.

And he just might get run off for his efforts. Then what has been accomplished?

 

Actually I was going to say the same thing about you...LOL

.... see because unless you mature in the direction of Doctrines of Grace .... ahhh this is hard to say to a well meaning but muddled brother, through the Grace of God & the HS that you will eventually see it your errors, otherwise your own theological dislocation will lead you to the eventual abandonment of orthodoxy. I will pray for you.

 

One of my best friends is a Cal. We meet regularly and pray with and for each other. We share our difficulties and vent as well as rejoice in God's move in both our churches as well as work together in the community. But at no time does he take the antagonistic attitude we see on this board by some Cals.

We had one couple who was a Cal visit for a while but he would not stay because he could not deal with the fact that Calvinism doesn't get preached.

 

And there is a clear example of the reason for division. Such statements would split a church.

 

Funny thing is, I fully believe in the biblical doctrine of grace, and will never bow my knee to the manmade and socalled "Doctrines of Grace." Pity those who fall into that maze of human philosophy ungrounded by the Word, and what other human philosophies and man made traditions must they be susceptible to! Pity them indeed!

 

So answer the question that Tom didnt answer .... Ready.., Yes or No is preferred... Is salvation by grace alone?

 

YES...

ALL true christians would agree on that truth, we fully disagree as to HOW we got the faith needed to receive the Grace of God towards us in Christ!

 

Think that a vast majority of christians in our baptist churches don't really think as much as we do on the BB as regards to sotierology!

MOST would agree that need to place faith in jesus, that He died for their sins , and that we are eternally secured, But could NOT name what election is by Bible, if Supra/Infr etc!

 

Ahhh, I just asked for a simple yes or no answer!

 

"I have seen DOZENS of families and lives wrecked irreversibly by sexual immorality, and seen zero wrecked by Calvinism."

Point well taken & I will add that the Calvinistic world view is perhaps best encapsulated in the 1st answer in the Westminster Shorter catechism: "Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever."