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Featured John 3:18 believers versus unbelievers

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    You have not met one point in post 17, you evaded them all, to only have me have to explain a bunch of your evasive objections, that is a no go !
     
    #21 savedbymercy, Oct 24, 2012
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The point is you have no legitimate points at all! They are all fabricated out of pure imaginational skills. The above post exposes your points as nothing but pure heresies.
     
    #22 The Biblicist, Oct 24, 2012
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    the bib

    of course you will say that, it gives you an excuse to evade them ! Nevertheless, The Elect are Never condemned legally before God for anything ! Even while they are being enemies, they are reconciled legally to God from all Sin and Condemnation Rom 5:10


    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    So those here in Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Those cannot be the Elect, Sorry !
     
    #23 savedbymercy, Oct 24, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    SBM is a heretic and no amount of evidence will turn him. The above statements stand untouched and completey destroy his whole soteriology.
     
    #24 The Biblicist, Oct 24, 2012
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ANY NT verse that supports that a sinner can have the Holy Spirit sealed within them apart from faith in Christ also?
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Oct 24, 2012
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    the bib

    The Elect are Never condemned legally before God for anything ! Even while they are being enemies, they are reconciled legally to God from all Sin and Condemnation Rom 5:10


    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    So those here in Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Those cannot be the Elect, Sorry !
     
    #26 savedbymercy, Oct 24, 2012
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When does God declares them as being elected/saved than?
     
    #27 Yeshua1, Oct 24, 2012
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    If you begin with a false foundation you end with a false conclusion and that is precisely what you have done.

    Romans 5:10 is jerked out of its context, abused by your rash hands and made to mean something its immediate context denies.

    Let's put it back into its context and notice the repeated contrast between "were" and "NOW." Both of these time terms describe two contrasting points IN TIME during the lifespan of his readers. They do not refer to any time previous to their existence but the time before they received the atonement/reconciliation by faith and the time when they received it to the present.


    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

    They were not justified/reconciled previously to "NOW" as it was IN TIME they "NOW received the atonement" and it was by faith.

    Verse 10 is placed between the "NOW" of verses 9 and verse 11. Their previous life before they "RECIEVED" the atonement by faith right up to that point of reception was a time when they "were enemies."

    The words "reconciled to God by the death of his Son" is descriptive of and refers to what they "RECEIVED" by faith at the "NOW" point of justification by faith.

    He is not saying they were justified previous to their lifetime at the cross of Christ but rather it is the death of Christ on the cross that furnished the object of justifying faith AT THE "NOW" POINT IN TIME when they received that message by faith.

    Just as Romans 4:5 states their condition prevous to and at the point of justificaiton by faith was "ungodly" or "enemies" or "sinners." BTW Romans 4:5 is descriptive of the POINT IN TIME when they believed in Christ just as Romans 4:9-11 proves in the case of Abraham.

    You abuse the context, misinterpret the scriptures and thus draw false conclusions.
     
    #28 The Biblicist, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2012
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Significantly the contrast between the past and the present does not take the reader to any time prior to the life time of the elect. We were not "enemies" prior to our birth and the contrast is between WHEN we were enemies and WHEN we "received" the atonement/reconciliation that we "NOW" possess.

    SBM wants to extend the time line back to the cross of Christ when in fact the time line does not extend any further than their own present life time.

    What they "received" (v. 11) was the reconciliation, meaning they were not reconciled previous to that point in time.
     
    #29 The Biblicist, Oct 25, 2012
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Romans 5:10 is part of an context, so its Truth found within it. You reject it.

    The Elect are never legally condemned before God for sin and law breaking, in fact, while they are experimentally enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, they nevertheless are Reconciled to God, Justifed before Him, forgiven of all Transgressions, accepted as Righteous before Him, all for Christ's Sake Alone ! Meaning HIS DEATH !

    You deny this, you deny the Gospel !
     
    #30 savedbymercy, Oct 25, 2012
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Readers take note that SBM cannot deal with contextual specifics of terms, grammar and obvious truths. He ignores them and then like a dumb parrot merely repeates his errors.

    This is how he deals with all scriptures - SUPERFICIALLY!

    He does not know one thing about proper exegesis and his assertions advertise his ignorance!
     
    #31 The Biblicist, Oct 25, 2012
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Rom 5:10 is found in the context, so the Truth it contains must be explained, its exegesis !

    Of which means:

    critical explanation or interpretation of a text or portion of a text, especially of the Bible.
     
    #32 savedbymercy, Oct 25, 2012
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    The above OP still stands as SBM has not addressed the particulars at all but simply ignored the particular facts.
     
    #33 The Biblicist, Oct 27, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    lol, all your vain babbling has been refuted soundly by Rom 5:10 !

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    The Elect are reconciled and Justified enemies of God by Christ's Death, for they are not under any condemnation at all. So Jn 3:18, those condemned already cannot even begin to apply to the Elect !
     
    #34 savedbymercy, Oct 27, 2012
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8

    6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !

    And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of [benefit of] of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.

    The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    To say that is false teaching !
     
    #35 savedbymercy, Oct 29, 2012
  16. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Look whose talking! You cannot deal with John 3:18 and so you change the subject to Romans 5:10. I have already dealt with the grammar and syntax of Romans 5:10 and proved your intepretation is no better than John 3:18.
     
    #36 The Biblicist, Oct 29, 2012
  17. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Originally Posted by The Biblicist
    >Jn. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Then this must refer to a conditional condemnation. Everyone "believeth not" before he "believeth."

    Does the sentence structure permit the existence of other reasons for being "condemned already?
     
    #37 billwald, Oct 29, 2012
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Preaching Reconciliation !



    Reconciliation in both Rom 5:10 ; 2 Cor 5:18-19 is objective or legal , it primarily of two things, the non imputation, and by the death of Christ, the satisfaction of God's Law, which also is the propitiation Heb 2:17

    17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

    Reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai and means:

    to be propitious, make propitiation for

    I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

    This reconciliation is whereby God through Christ's Blood or Death hath reconciled sinful men [ the elect or the people] unto Himself ! Now because of Christ's Blood, God's anger and wrath has been laid aside and the sinner for whom He died [sinfulness and all] has God received into His Favor, for the word reconciled means:

    to receive one into favour

    Therefore, all for whom Christ died, regardless of their spiritual condition by nature, God accepts them and looks at them with favor and mercy, and frees them from any condemnation and or wrath !
     
    #38 savedbymercy, Oct 30, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The ones condemned here in Jn 3:18, are condemned prior to their opportunity to believe on Christ, so their not believing when the opportunity came by hearing the Gospel, it made manifest their condemned state, simply because God had not been propitiated for their sins against His Law and Justice, so they cannot believe !

    But those believing, the fact that they believed made manifest that they were not already in a condemned state, because God was already propitiated for them and their sins by the Blood of Christ, so they are given on behalf of Christ to believe on Him Phil 1:29 !

    Thats the True meaning of Jn 3:18, it does not teach that the unbelieving elect are condemned by God at all, that is false teaching !
     
    #39 savedbymercy, Oct 30, 2012
  20. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Preaching Reconciliation ! cont



    Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God,while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Propitiation:

    akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

    The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

    Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

    Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !
     
    #40 savedbymercy, Oct 30, 2012
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