Featured manifestation vs gift

It says you have to be a witness to the resurrection of Jesus.

Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."

 

And once again you have twisted my words. The only thing I have questioned about your walk with God is your own stated motive for investigating the arguments of the Charismatic movement. That is certainly not always, or even often, or even occasionally.

 

Stop twisting my words. I never said you should say you are sorry for the truth, nor even for what you believe. Go ahead and stand up for what you believe. Where you are offensive is over and over mis-stating my views (as you have done again in this very post). If you don't think that is offensive, I feel sorry for you. I have obeyed what the Lord Jesus Christ said about offenses but stating my case directly to you. Since you rejecct my words, you have not been obedient to Christ. End of story.

As for staying off the debate boards, I find most "Christian" boards ridiculous and un-Christian. But check my post number for the BB, the only one I'm on. Having been working for Christ in a Gospel-resistant country for the last 31 years, I think I've seen more than my share of offenses. And I'm still here. God gives strength.

 

Yes you do. The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today.
There are no apostles today.
There are no unbelieving Jews today of the first century--the ones that put that crucified our Lord (Acts 2). It was for their generation, as Peter said. You don't keep in context.
You will admit that the miracles of Moses are not for today, but not the gifts of the Spirit. Both are in a different time period: the time of Moses, and the time of Jesus and the Apostles.
[quote[[ Exactly..we did not see creation...but we believe it because it is in the Word of God! THat is what I have been trying to tell you! Faith comes by hearing the Word! Once we hear/read it..then we can act on it by faith. Before we ever see evidence of it![/quote]
We see evidence of creation all around us (Psalm 19:1). It is called Intelligent Design. But we don't see any evidence of the gifts of the Spirit, especially the sign gifts. I ask you again show me evidence of the gift of healing in operation today just as Peter healed in Acts 5:16. It is not operational and has not been for the last 20 centuries. To claim that it is, then, is delusional.

It is all about evidence. The Hindus faithfully believe in the god of Ganesh even though they have no evidence.
You faithfully believe that the gifts of the Spirit (gift of healing) are operational even though you have no evidence, has not been seen in over 20 centuries. What makes your faith any better than that of a Hindu. They also believe in their Sacred Writings, the Vedas. You are treating the Bible the same way.

Blind faith. Do you also believe God will speak to you through a burning bush as he did to Moses? Why not? Anything is possible with God is it not? That is your reasoning. Do not limit God!
The fact is that God limits himself. He will not speak to you through a burning bush like he did with Moses. And he does not operate through the gift of healing today, and has not for the last 20 centuries.

I give you Scripture; you give me the "manifestation" of your unbiblical experience.

You can't prove that it was the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never works contrary to his Word. Good feeling experiences are not necessarily the work of the Holy Spirit.

His Word says that the Godly shall suffer persecution. The reason that believers don't suffer persecution is because they are not godly.

Have fun! Have your experiences! Go, enjoy life! But is it of God??
I doubt it. God works different ways in different dispensations. This is not the apostolic age. The apostles have died off along with the supernatural gifts of the Spirit. Enjoy your emotional experiences. But beware of what spirit they are.

He split John's church. Charismatics split a church near here. After staying in a large church south of here, they end up coming here totally confused, emotionally unstable, and Biblically ignorant. That is because Charismatics build doctrine on experience, and not the other way around. They allegorize Scripture. Anything goes. They are unstable as water.

Your gospel is a false gospel. What you had was truth. Now you are departing from it.
You are starting to believe in a false gospel--health and wealth prosperity gospel--straight from the pit of hell. Just think of the videos I posted for you in the light of that gospel, and tell me that it is God's will for all to be prosperous? Not all live up to that affluent standard of the average America.

Consider this one final warning:

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

 

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

 

As not to cause too much controversy here, I am trying to stick to what most of us agree are the sign gifts.
Having said that, what do you believe is the "gift of knowledge"?

 

I am speaking of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1st Corinthians 12

 

DHK: "The gifts of the Holy Spirit, when looked in context of the Bible, are not for today."
No faith?
No wisdom?
No knowledge?
No discernment?
Or are you speaking of the gifts that require tangible proof?

 

2 Corinthians 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

They were given as signs to the Apostles to authenticate them and their message as being from God.
No apostles; no gifts.

 

So the gifts of Faith, Discerning spirits, Wisdom, and Knowledge are no longer needed and are gone with the last apostle. Interesting.

 

Just to comment on this, DHK is exactly right. Shintoists have faith, and the Japanese language uses the exact same word for our faith and theirs, shinko. The difference is that have no factual basis for their faith. They'll pray to their millions of Shinto "gods" and believe in them, but they have not one ounce of proof. I once talked to a Shinto believer who thought that cockroaches could hear her, so she shouldn't lie.

Just so, as long as Charismatics do not submit to outside proof by lost people that their tongues are genuine languages, they have no proof whatsoever. They can say, "Believe me, my tongues are real," but there is no reason in the entire world or in the entire Word of God for me to believe them.

Awaken can say, "If you don't believe my tongues are real, you are in unbelief." That's ridiculous. What is there in his tongues to make me believe in them? In Acts 2 the tongues were proven to be real because people were there who understood them in their own language. Awaken, of course, will never have that proof, that verification. There have been Charismatics who submitted their tongues to linguistic examination. In every case, the tongues were fake, not real languages. I won't put my faith in the fake.

 

You faith is in tongues or at least in "the belief" that tongues is a doctrine that is valid and operational for today and therefore should be practiced. If you did not have that faith, you would not practice something that you call "tongues" but the Bible doesn't. What the Bible calls the gift of tongues or languages, you don't have at all. You do not speak in a known language, can't understand what you are saying and neither can anyone else. It is totally unbiblical. The entire emphasis of chapter 14 in 1Cor. was on understanding. Your emphasis in on NOT understanding. It is the exact opposite. It is simply a "feel-good" experience to you--no guarantee that it is of the Holy Spirit whatsoever.

 

Peter did say that.
Paul also was speaking to the very ones that crucified Christ, and that is who he was speaking to. The tongues were a sign to THEM, those unbelieving Jews who were soon to feel the wrath of God in just a few short years. It was a sign that those who spoke were God's messengers speaking forth God's message. They couldn't avoid it any longer.

You have taken one phrase out of 1Cor.12:7 of six words and built an entire doctrine around it. Don't tell me I am adding to the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit will never leave us. I never said he would. You are once again twisting words. Study your Bible. The Holy Spirit has been working on this earth from the days of creation. But he works in different ways during different periods of time. He works today differently than he did during the days of the apostles, as he did during the days of Moses. These truths are self-evident.

My faith is based on facts, the facts of the Bible, the resurrection, the known facts of God's Word. Your faith is not based on facts. It is existential, esoteric, and even mystical. Faith was never meant to be that. Your faith is like the Hindu's faith. You have as much basis for your faith that they have for theirs when they put "their faith" in the god of Ganesh, the elephant god. Their faith is rooted in the Vedas in as much as yours is in the Bible. But it is not grounded in fact. It is simply "God can do anything because I believe the Bible."
The Hindu says: "My god can do anything because I believe the Vedas."
What is so different?

No I wouldn't. I know that God answers prayer and in doing so people are often healed. But all of that is according to His will, and doesn't happen ALL the time. I have seen people healed as well. But that does not mean the gift of healing is in operation today.
Show me someone who has the gift of healing and can heal as Peter did in Acts 5:16. You can't.

That is right. You do not properly use the Word of God. Anyone can hold the Bible in their hand and say I have the Word of God. So what! How do you apply the Word to your life? How do you follow the doctrines written therein. Does it all harmonize together? Or do you follow it like a Hindu follows the Vedas?

Is this what God told you:

Thus saith Lord: He that follows after me shall keep my commandments.
Judas went out and hanged himself.
Go and do thou likewise.
What thou doest do quickly.
And he cried with a loud voice: "It is finished."

That is your method of Bible interpretation. Have you followed it yet? Is it God's will for your life?

Sure, God can do anything, so you say. But that is what the devil wants you to believe. God can't do anything. God limits himself by His Word and by his nature. God never lies. That is one immutable thing that never changes. He cannot lie.
Here is an example of one thing God could not do.
When Jesus was on the way to being tried, he told Peter to put up his sword. They that use the sword shall perish by the sword. But then he told Peter: "Do you not know that I could call 12 legions of angels (72,000) from my Father and he would send them."
Think about that.
The Creator is about to be crucified. He had the ability to call 72,000 angels from heaven. In the OT, one angel slaughtered 186,000 of Israel's enemy. Yet Jesus withheld using that power. He did not do what He could have done because it was not God's will. God will not go against His own Will--never.

It is not his will to have the gifts of the Spirit operative.
It is not his will to do certain things. Thus when you say meaningless statements as: Has he? "NO! But I believe he can!"
I reply:
It is outside of the will of God to do so.

You are not taking God's word; but ignoring it. God does not speak to individuals through burning bushes today. How is "taking God's Word over mine" proving that God still talks to people through burning bushes? Do you know how much sense you make?

It doesn't teach that at all; you want to force that interpretation on that passage but that is not what it teaches.

I teach the totality of Scripture and harmonize all the Scripture together, using each one in its context at the same time.

The modern day tongues experience is an experience, an emotional high.

Let me explain this so you have a proper understanding.
Go into a Charismatic church. They will ask if you have spoken in tongues yet. If you haven't had the experience yet, you are looked down upon as being "not very spiritual." A spiritual person will have spoken in tongues. Speaking in tongues is the indicator of whether or not you are spiritual (in their circles. It becomes a dividing point.

But that is not what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches this:
Paul told Timothy: "Yea, all who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
A godly person, a spiritual person suffers persecution for their faith.
It doesn't say a spiritual person speaks in tongues. It says a spiritual or godly person suffers for their faith. Might we rightly conclude that those who don't suffer for their faith are not very godly?

Here is a link for you to read.
Please take a look at it, and you will know something of what I am talking about.

http://www.worthynews.com/11793-breaking-news-pakistan-blasphemy-boy-ryan-in-hiding