Featured Savior versus Sacrament

"[COLOR="PaleTurquoise"]A second core Baptist conviction has to do with the local church. While affirming the universal Church of Christ, Baptists believe that each local church is competent under Christ to shape is own life and ministry[/COLOR]. Therefore, Baptists believe the affairs of each local church are in the hands of that congregation, allowing no outside ecclesiastical interference, civil intervention, or clergy domination. Most Baptist churches practice two ordinances, baptism and the Lord's Supper, and these are interpreted usually as symbols rather than sacraments. "
From ApologeticsIndex

perhaps its due to the difference between say how an IBF Baptist and a SBc views it then?

 

no need to get upset here, as was just addressing the issue that many baptists DO hold tp there being BOTH the Universal and locak church!

 

In these threads on these kinds of subjects, I agree totally with the Baptists and not with the Catholics. But I wonder why I like the Catholics better. Hmmm.... maybe it has something to do with fruit.

 

There is a difference of opinion to be sure. I chalk it up to lack of education in the field of ecclesiology. It is one area that we had a good foundation in.

There is no such thing as a universal church, by the very definition of the Greek word, which means "assembly." An assembly cannot be unassembled. I don't know how you can reconcile that in your mind.
Where does this mythical universal assembly actually assemble?
Who are the deacons?
Who takes up the offering?
Who preaches?
At what times are the services (and in what time zone)?
Where is the church building that is big enough to seat all the believers of the world that are able to assemble in one place at one time together? Isn't that a bit mind-boggling for you? Can't you admit that it just doesn't take place; it doesn't happen. There is no such thing.

There may be such a thing in the future after the resurrection when we all get to heaven. There all the saints will assemble in heaven, but not until then. The universal church contradicts the very definition of "church" or ekklesia which means "assembly." Look in Youngs' literal translation. Wherever "church" occurs in other translations, it is translated "assembly" as it ought to be.

There are other words for the so-called universal church.
The kingdom, the bride of Christ, the family of God, to name a few. Why do you insist on using unbiblical terminology such as the universal church, when you have other biblical terms to choose from?

 

And your post proves exactly the truth of what I wrote, you liar and accuser!

Yes, I have responded in kind when initially attacked, just as I am doing now. There is a difference in responses to attacks and initiating attacks. When I am called the vile things that I have been called here without provocation, you'd better believe I'll defend myself!

So, YOU stop attacking and shut your stinking mouth! Your fruit is as rotten as it gets! I'll take the Catholics on here any day over you and your ilk.

You think you know so much, even to the pint of infallibly interpreting scripture! You'd better read what 1 Cor. 13 says about people like you, assuming you can interpret that infallibly!

 

trinity is seen as describing a valid biblcal doctrine of the personhood of God, even though exact term not used in the Bible...

same way, the concept of the doctrine of the Universal Church in the bible, have used terms also Bride/Body of Christ, just that UNiversal church is recognized and used as a valid expression of the concept!

 

The trinity describes a concept that can be backed up by Scripture.
The universal church is contradicted by scripture.
A universal assembly makes no sense. It is a contradiction in its very terminology. It can't be universal and an assembly at the same time.

 

It is, just as jesus can be at the fathers right hand in heaven, and yet also present with His people here on earth!

 

What has that got to do with the word or concept "church"?
Nothing, is the answer.

 

Just trying to show that its possible that the Church can be in heaven with the Lord, and those saints alive are here, and they attend local churches, sum total of all saved persons in local groups/churches/denomination IS the Universal church...

 

There indeed is a universal church in heaven, for all believers will be assembled there. But those saints are not assembled here. Will you admit that the apostles are believers. Do you commune with them, sit under their preaching? What about the ones they taught, and all the members of the churches--about 100 of the churches that Paul started? Do they assemble with you here on this earth? Where are they? Have you met them, shook their hands? Greeted them? Where do you meet with them and assemble with them, and fellowship with them on this earth as you persist in saying???

If you keep saying this then I can only conclude that you practice some form of necromancy.

 

except that there ARE indeed a solid group of baptists that do indeed affirm and adhere to the Biblical notion of there being a Universal and local church!

The bible teaches that all chrsitians are placed by the Lord spiritually in His body/bride,, the Church of christ, and that there are also those who attend and membership in local churches....

Do yopu see christians as in the Body who do NOT attend local assemblies?
that they can be mebers of the Body and not even a member in a local church, or else in a Denomination instead?

 

Not at all! You do realise that MANY baptists see and hold it same fashion I do from the bible, correct?

 

The majority isn't always right, but the Bible is.
The majority of Christendom is made up of the RCC, but that doesn't make them right.
The majority of the people of the world (largest religion and largest growing religion) is Islam, but that doesn't make it the right religion. Or, do you believe that it is, just because it has the most numbers?

 

FYI DHK

The worlds largest religion is Christianity at 2.2 billion the worlds second largest religion is Islam at 1.6 billion. I got those figures from CNN.