Featured Tasted death for every man !

I am not interested in what others might say, I didn't even click on that link. I want to know how YOU know Jesus died for YOU.

If Jesus did not die for every man, how do you know for a certainty that he died for you?

I know that Jesus died for me, because Jesus died for all men. But you cannot say this for a certainty if you believe Jesus died for only some men.

So again, how do YOU know Jesus died for YOU?

 

If Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe. Your believing doesn't make it so.

Some folks have believed they could handle snakes and have been bitten and died. Just because you believe doesn't make it so.

 

Your evalution is irrational! Yeshua based his response on what the Word of God says as much as you did. If his response doesn't matter than neither does yours because his response is based upon what he believes the Scripture teaches as much as your response is based upon what you believe the scripture teaches.

The argument over the extent of the atonement is not determined by your argument at all. The scriptures gives many ways a person can know that Christ died for them.

1. The way the gospel came to them - 1 Thes. 1:4-5
2. Change - before and after - 2 Cor. 5:17/Rom. 8:7
3. The characteristics of Biblical repentance and faith
4. Internal witness of the Spirit - Rom. 8:14,16
5. Things that accompany salvation - Heb. 6:9

 

And I would ask you the same question, if Jesus did not die for every man, how do you know that he died for you? If you are honest, you will admit that you don't know.

The scripture tells of tare mixed with the wheat. Just because a person "acts" like a Christian doesn't mean they are.

 

Yes, I mean all men without exception. I could quote you a dozen verses that says Jesus died for all men, but I am sure you have seen them many times. The very title of your thread is taken from Heb 2:9 which says Jesus "should taste death for every man", but you redefine the word "every" to mean only some men. If you are going to redefine words, nothing I could say would convince you, but don't tell me my view is not scriptural.

It is you that must redefine words, not me.

The fact is, if your view is correct, you have no idea if Jesus died for you or not. It is very difficult to have faith in an uncertainty, but that's all you've got.

You probably should spend your time trying to determine how you can know if Jesus died for you personally than coming here and lecturing others.

 

You are missing the point! Christ dying for only His elect means the ONLY QUESTION you must ask and answer is - "how do I know I am one of His elect."

I gave you five Bibical ways one can answer that question.

 

If Jesus did not die for every man, there is no way for a certainty that you can know you are one of the elect. It is impossible. You may simply be self deceived and believe you are elect when you are not. John Calvin taught that God deceives some men with a false faith that seems so real that it cannot not be discerned from true saving faith. Calvin called this "Evanescent Grace". Look it up and see for yourself.

If you do not know for a certainty that Jesus died for you personally, then it is impossible to know if you are elect for a certainty.

 

Let me give an analogy of what I am talking about.

Suppose your church receives a letter from me. In the letter I promise to send every member of your church a check for $1000. But there is a catch, only half of the checks are good. The other half are from an account that has no money in it and will bounce.

Now the day comes and everybody gets their check. Can you with certainty know your check is good? No. Just because it is a real check doesn't mean it is going to cash. Your check looks just like everyone else's, you have the same evidence everyone else has, but none of you knows if your check is good or not. None of you can have certainty until you actually attempt to cash your check.

Well, that is what it is like if Jesus did not die for every man. You may believe there is all sorts of evidence that you are elect in your view, but in the end, your check may not cash.

 

Unless you believe in universal salvation, universal atonement does not assure you of personal salvation any more than limited atonement.

If the Bible were silent about how the elect can know they are the elect you would be right. However, the Bible is not silent about how to know you are one of God's elect.

What you are missing is that the same scriptures you demand provides the solution to your question is the same scriptures that I believe provides the answer to my question. However, your argument is based upon the premise that the scripture provide no other answer but universal atonement!

 

Your analogy is flawed. From my perspective the letter would guarantee $1000.00 to every QUALIFIED man. Unless you believe in universal salvation, even you must admit the scriptures QUALIFY the application.

Hence, if the scriptures teach that only the elect are redeemed and then set forth the qualifications how to know you are one of the elect then your premise and theory are proven invalid. The Scriptures set forth the QUALIFICATIONS so that one can know - it is just that simple.

 

What qualifications? The scriptures teach that the devil plants tares among the wheat. They look and act just like real Christians. What evidence is proof they are elect?

My analogy is pretty good. Your check looks just like everyone else's. But you will only know if you were one of the fortunate elect when you go and try to cash it.

See, Calvinists all turn into Arminians when you ask them how they know they are elect. They will say, "I know I am elect because I have believed". That is the Arminian view.

But there is a HUGE difference. The Arminian can know he is saved when he believes, because he knows for a certainty Jesus died for him. The Calvinist cannot have this assurance, because he believes Jesus only died for some men. Your check may not cash. There may be no money in that account for you.

 

Do you believe in UNIVERSAL salvation? If you say no, then you admit to QUALFICATIONS for atonement application. Can you identify those qualifications from scripture???? If not, then your view of the atonement provides no assurance to anyone at all.

I have given you FIVE Biblical evidences how one can know they are the elect.

Indeed, salvation is KNOWING God by direct REVELATION to the human soul - Jn. 17:3; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16.

 

Of course I do not believe in universal salvation. But if Jesus did not die for every man, your evidence is meaningless. It is like having that check, it looks just like everyone else's. Your check looks just as real as everyone else's, your evidence is the same. But when you go to cash it, there may be no money in that account if your view is true. If Jesus did not die for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, you are not going to be saved. It doesn't matter if you read your Bible every day, go to church every time the doors are opened, go on visitations, visit the sick, give to missions, etc... It doesn't matter what you do, if the money is not in the account, that check is not going to cash.

It is like these folks who believe in snake handling. They BELIEVE, but they die, because they misinterpret scripture.

This is what Jesus meant when he said to build your house on a rock and not the sand. Your faith has to have a foundation under it or your house will fall. If Jesus did not die for every man, then you have no solid foundation under you.

The man who built his house on the sand had faith, but his house was not built on something solid, something certain. So when the storm came, the house fell.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Jesus said many will call him Lord, in fact it is emphasized, being said twice, "Lord, Lord". They will prophesy in his name, cast out devils, and do many wonderful works, yet they are not saved.

But then note how Jesus tells the story of those who build a house on a rock, and others who build a house on the sand. When the storm came, the house on a rock stood, while the house built on sand fell.

Your faith has to have a rock under it, an absolute certainty. If you know that Jesus certainly died for all men, then you can know for a certainty that he died for you personally. Your faith is built on a rock.

But if you believe Jesus only died for some men, your faith is built on an uncertainty. You cannot possibly know for certain if Jesus died for you personally. When the storm comes, your house will fall.

Think about it.

 

Don't you realize that your argument is based upon presuppositional beleifs as much as mine is?? If your interpretation is wrong it doesn't matter what you believe about who and who is not going to be saved as your beliefs could be no more valid the snake handlers beliefs.

Don't you realize that your whole analogy is based upon circular reasoning? You assume your position by stating that these checks are all equal checks and are equally distributed to every man. Hence, built into your analogy is your own premise.

Don't you realize that the Bible is REVELATION and if God provides revealed evidences so that any person can know if they are the elect, the redeemed, the saved, then your argument is worthless?

Another invalid analogy to your specific application! The rock is not KNOWLEDGE OF THE EXTENT OF THE ATONEMENT it is the Person and Work of Jesus Christ in behalf of sinners that is the object of faith. You can know you are a sinner by God's Word and convicting power of the Holy Spirit and you can only trust in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit as He is the author and finisher of that faith.

Your argument is completely irrational. You have removed the basis for faith from the Person and work of Christ to the extent of the atonement. That is not only irrational but unbiblical. Nowhere does the Scripture call on anyone or command anyone to believe in a universal atonement in order to be saved or to KNOW they are saved.

 

The scriptures don't have to say atonement is universal (although they do in many scriptures, which you know), it is common sense.

Go back to my analogy. In the letter I sent to your church, I told you beforehand that only half of the checks are good. I told you that half the checks are written from an account that has no money in it.

Now you get your check for $1000. Can you know for an absolute certainty that check is good and will cash? No. You cannot know this until you attempt to cash it.

You can hope your check is good, but you cannot have true faith and certainty that is is good.

It is the same with the atonement, if Jesus did not die for every man, you cannot possibly know if he truly died for you. Your evidence is meaningless. You might be self deceived.

Now, if I had promised that all checks would be good, and I was known to be an honest person who never lied, then you could have true assurance and confidence it would cash when you received it.

 

It is at this point your analogy breaks down because it includes the very premise you are arguing for. Everybody gets a check in your analogy and that is the very premise you are trying to defend.

 

There are enough checks to go around for all. They all say: "Paid in full."
But only the ones who receive them will be saved. Salvation is the gift of God. It must be freely received.

 

Every single one who sees themselves as sinners and who are heavy ladened and burdened with sin may come to Christ and find rest. He will never turn any such sinner away - not one!

However, He never came to save the righteous.

 

Personally I think the last statement was a dig at the Pharisees.
Otherwise I agree with you.