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Featured Tenn. assoc. disfellowships church with female pastor

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Divorce is just the one he can't just fix without reconciling to his divorced wife. This is JUST how important marriage is to God.
     
    #41 Zaac, Oct 24, 2015
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    So then his solution is to divorce again, have his ex wife divorce again and then remarry? Causing two additional divorces - possibly to spouses married for many years - and remarry the first person?
     
    #42 annsni, Oct 24, 2015
  3. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member
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    And you fall for it every time...
     
    #43 Rolfe, Oct 24, 2015
  4. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    If the person is married again, they are living in sin. How can someone repent of their sin and remain in it?
     
    #44 matt wade, Oct 24, 2015
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    But she was not a pastor. She was a cook. :)
     
    #45 TCassidy, Oct 24, 2015
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  6. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming that before God that the person was ever released from the original marriage. You can't remarry if you've not been released from the true marriage. Just like the lady at the well.
     
    #46 Zaac, Oct 24, 2015
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You must have missed the rest of the passage. To be a pastor a man must be above reproach:

    1. Above reproach in his married life. The husband of one wife.

    2. Above reproach in his thought life. Sober-minded.

    3. Above reproach in his personal life. Self-controlled.

    4. Above reproach in his community life. Respectable.

    5. Above reproach in his social life. Hospitable.

    6. Above reproach in his pedagogical life. Able to teach.

    7. Above reproach in his temperance life. Not a drunkard.

    8. Above reproach in his emotional life. Not violent but gentle.

    9. Above reproach in his deportment life. Not quarrelsome.

    10. Above reproach in his financial life. Not a lover of money.

    11. Above reproach in his home life. Manage his own household well.

    12. Above reproach in his parenting life. Keeping his children submissive.

    13. Above reproach in his Christian life. Not be a recent convert.

    14. Above reproach in his influential life. Well thought of by outsiders.


    1 Timothy 3:2 Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
    3 not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
    4 He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive,
    5 for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church?
    6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    7 Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
     
    #47 TCassidy, Oct 24, 2015
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  8. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    But apparently one could have had all of these in their lives at some point and yet still be a pastor - but if they were divorced, they can never ever be a pastor.
     
    #48 annsni, Oct 24, 2015
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Wrong again.
     
    #49 TCassidy, Oct 24, 2015
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It never ceases to amaze me how little some Christians know their bible. They get some foolish idea in their heads then try to force the bible into supporting their foolish idea.

    In 1 Timothy 3:2 the verse starts with the word δει. That is the word translated "must" and means, in Greek, "it is binding." The word is a verb in the present tense, active voice, indicative mood, third person (he), singular.

    The rest of the requirements are all adjectives in the accusative case, singular, masculine modifying "he who must."

    The passage is telling us a man, in order to be a Bishop (Overseer, Pastor) must be, it is binding on him, irreprehensible. Above reproach.

    He must be:

    1. The (present tense) husband of one wife. He may only have one living wife. If he has wife #1 and wife #2 he is not qualified for the office.

    2. Sober-minded. (Present tense - he must be sober minded. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    3. Self-controlled. (Present tense - he must be self-controlled. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    4. Respectable. (Present tense - he must be respectable. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    5. Hospitable. (Present tense - he must be hospitable. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    6. Able to teach. (Present tense - he must be able to teach. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    7. Not a drunkard. (Present tense - he must not be a drunkard. If he is he is not qualified for the office.)

    8. Not violent but gentle. (Present tense - he must not be violent but gentle. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    9. Not quarrelsome. (Present tense - he must not be quarrelsome. If he is he is not qualified for the office.)

    10. Not a lover of money. (Present tense - he must not be a lover of money. If he is he is not qualified for the office.)

    11. Manage his own household well. (Present tense - he must manage his household well. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    12. Keeping his children submissive. (Present tense - he must be keeping his children submissive. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    13. Not be a recent convert. (Present tense - he must not be a recent convert. If he is he is not qualified for the office.)

    14. Well thought of by outsiders. (Present tense - he must be well thought of by outsiders. If he is not he is not qualified for the office.)

    This is all so very simple. But some people seem to think they know better than God who is and who is not qualified for God's highest human office. And that is utterly sad. :(
     
    #50 TCassidy, Oct 24, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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  11. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    God also takes seriously, your inability to love your neighbor as yourself! I think you may fall into this catagorey, as much as a divorced man or woman falls into your catch all judgement!
     
    #51 righteousdude2, Oct 24, 2015
  12. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    EXCELLENT post! The only thing I question is the living wife? A divorce, legally dismisses and absolves, LEGALLY (and God is all into legality) the spouse, so, what say you on that?
     
    #52 righteousdude2, Oct 24, 2015
  13. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    So, it sounds like you believe that man's law trumps God's law?
     
    #53 matt wade, Oct 25, 2015
  14. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and likewise T Cassidy - does being single (never married) prohibit a man from being a pastor?
    as you said " In 1 Timothy 3:2 the verse starts with the word δει. That is the word translated "must" and means, in Greek, "it is binding." The word is a verb in the present tense, active voice, indicative mood, third person (he)..."
     
    #54 Salty, Oct 25, 2015
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  15. John Public

    John Public Evangelist, author, muscian. Meek servant.

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    I can resonate with T Cassidy's post. If one went to the Polls sub-forum, and asked "Have in your walk with the Lord Jesus Christ even ONE time you read your Bible," most, barring those without a Bible in their tongue, or the lethargic, or those freshly redeemed would have to answer NO.
    Three chapters a day! That's all you have to read to get the whole thing in one year! Therefore it would be without controversy a woman cannot preach, because we never saw one in the NT, and when we turn to Titus 2 & I Timothy 3, the qualifications of the bishopric are all MASCULINE! Even if you must resort to the UBS 4 (Nestle Aland 26 and on), or the Textus Receptii, Sephanus, Beza, or Erasumus, or Scrivener,
    the terms are not the feminine case. Here it is in the concordance, epískopos, http://biblehub.com/greek/1985.htm.
    "Epískopos" is always masculine, as is "overseer", "bishop"
    or "pastor".

    Furthermore, the roles of women in Christian life are CLEARLY outlined. As one old British minister would say, "Let's have a bit of the word."
    I Timothy 2
    9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

    This is co-witnessed when Paul instructs to Titus, capítulo dos,
    1But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: 2That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
    3The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

    The word minister is likewise masculine, being λειτουργός,
    http://biblehub.com/greek/3011.htm

    The Christian woman has GREAT LIBERTY like none other has! Women would not have that in Islam, Jewery, Bhuddism, Skhism, Roman Catholicism, secular humanism &c. She does not by reason of Eve's transgression and place below Adam in authority to be a pastor, elder, bishop, preacher, or overseer.

    Mientras tanto, in Spanish, obispado & obispo mean bishopric & bishop. They are in the masculine case denoted by the "-o". The feminine case usually is designated by "-a", but also by, less commonly, "-e", and still less commonly
    "-u". If God wanted it so he would have created feminine tenses in Spanish & English; but there is no such thing as an "obispa" in Spanish, just as there is no fenminine word for "bishop".
    1 Timoteo 3:1,2 "Parabla verdandera [es] esta: si alguno apetece obispado, obra buena desea. Es menester, pues, que el obispo sea irresprensible, marido de una sola esposa, [married to only one wife], vigilante, templado, de buenas costumbres, hospedador, apto para enseñar," Valera 1602 Purificada.
    All masculine requirements, like in English, for the obispado, bishopric. The word for wife (and handcuff) is esposa.
    Tito 2.1-4 "Tu empero habla las cosas que convienen la sana doctrina: Los hombres ancianas, asimismo, que ser comporten santamente, no calumniadores, ni dadas a mucho vino, [sino] maestras de honestidad, Para que enseñen a las jóvenes a ser prudentes, a que amen a sus maridos [husbands], a que amen a sus hijos." 1602 Valera Purificada

    In case you were wondering, minister in Spanish is also masculine, ministro.

    The terms are all masculine here as well. At that we could close the thread. No arguments ad infenitum can change the gender case come what appeals to culture or modernism may.
     
    #55 John Public, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  16. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Very well summed up.
     
    #56 Zaac, Oct 25, 2015
  17. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    Foolishness. if she is alive, she's still your wife, divorce by man or not.
     
    #57 Zaac, Oct 25, 2015
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I see. Because I disagree with you I am unqualified to pastor because I "don't love my neighbor?"

    Is it "love" to lie to somebody about his qualifications for the pastorate?

    Is it "love" to put someone in a position where he is out of God's will and will not have the power of the Holy Spirit enabling his ministry?

    I think love is telling a brother in Christ that he does not meet the biblical qualifications to be a Bishop but helping him to find his actual calling where he can serve God in Spirit and in Truth and be empowered by the Holy Spirit to accomplish God's will.
     
    #58 TCassidy, Oct 25, 2015
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I say, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God."

    Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

    Paul makes it clear in Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

    And in case you missed it the first time he repeats the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
     
    #59 TCassidy, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I believe the verse I quoted when understood in the context of 1 Timothy 3:6 "Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil" would preclude a single man from the Senior Pastorate.

    I don't believe a single man is mature enough to be a Senior Pastor (Bishop = Overseer). He may have to deal with some very sensitive sexual issues regarding members of the congregation.

    I would take him on in an associate pastor roll until such time he matures and marries. (In fact that is exactly what I did. The young man who replaced me as Senior Pastor had been with me since he was 19 (a 19 year old seminary grad!) He married at about 24 and assumed the Senior Pastorate at about 36. He has now taken on a young man of 23 who is also unmarried but growing and is engaged to a very nice young lady.)

    :)
     
    #60 TCassidy, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
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