Featured The Children whom God hath given me

Since you are responding to what I say, it apparently is not a waste of your precious time.

Oh teach me enlightened one. Wait...I'll get my thimble for you to fill with your incredible range of knowledge. Okay, I'm back. Pour all your knowledge into my vessel.

Duh, ask me something harder. You can't be that dense.

You need to read the whole context of Hebrews 2. Icon explained it well in his OP and following.

The "everyone" = the many sons in verse 10. It is the very same people referenced in verse 11 :brothers. In verse 13 it again refers to the children God has given me.

Everyone in Heb. 2:9 has to be read in light of the verse that surround it.

Ah, not you admit "in all its usages." Many times in the past you insisted world meant world. You had denied it when I told you it had as many as 8-10 different meanings depending on the context.

 

It should be noted that when Paul was speaking in Acts 20:28:

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
--he was speaking to the Ephesian elders (vs.17).

Often, we colloquially refer to one group of believers as "the church" as is properly done here. Christ died for them. We use the same terminology when speaking to an individual on a one-to-one basis. "Christ died for you."

Certainly, in witnessing to another, it is not wrong to say: "Christ died for you." Your meaning would not be: "you and only you and no one else." Nor would he take it that way. Nor would you (hopefully) tell this person: "Christ died for the elect. I can't tell you if you are one of the elect or not. You might not be so what I tell you is all in vain for you might be damned for all eternity and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Only the elect can be saved and you might not be one of them...OTOH, Christ may have "died for you (if and only if you are one of the elect).

When we celebrate the Lord's Table we remind ourselves--both individually and corporately as a church--that Christ died for us (that he shed his blood and gave his body) for us. Thus we examine ourselves before we partake of the elements to make sure we are worthy to partake of this most solemn ordinance wherein we remember that Christ died for "us."
--Not the collective elect, but us individually and as a local church.

But herein is the truth. Christ died for all; not that all would be saved, but all who would believe will be saved. He paid the penalty for all sin. The greatest sin is unbelief, and he paid the penalty for that sin as well.

Here is one of the greatest heresies that the Bible describes:
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Note:
1. These are false teachers that are among the church. They attack the church from within.
2. They bring with them damnable heresies. (lit. "heresies of destruction.") Those tenets that will split churches.
3. The one mentioned: False teachers that "deny the doctrine that the Lord purchased them," or the doctrine of "Limited Atonement."

False teachers and prophets are not saved. They preach (or deny that the Lord has purchased them.") Perhaps they are saying that they cannot be saved because they are not one of the elect. This is a "damnable heresy."

IOW, this is irrefutable evidence (among a host of other scripture), that Christ died for all, paid the penalty for all, and that to preach a limited atonement is absolutely out of order.

 

I asked this question to you, DHK, and you have yet to address it. It was at the bottom of page 6, so you probably did not see it. Will you please address it? Thanks.

 

I see Mr. Rippon continues his insults, and denial of truth.

He seems to have no idea of the Greek word group as used in scripture which is translated as propitiation at 1 John 2:2. The idea is Christ is our propitiation, but not only ours, but also for the whole world. Christ = propitiation.

Does Mr. Rippon deny Christ died as a ransom for all, that Christ tasted death for everyone, that He became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world?

Now we have "everyone" = "not everyone" Go figure. God means what He says according to conservatives, but liberals like to revise and extend His remarks.

And finally, once again Mr. Rippon presents a false and misleading statement. I said John uses the word translated world to mean fallen mankind and the corrupt system of fallen mankind. He does not use it to mean this here and the opposite there. That is the liberal rewrite to nullify scripture. Pretty much every lexicon agrees that mankind is in view at John 3:16.

Bottom line: Christ died for all mankind according to scripture.

 

Yes, in fact He did.

Yes, in the lake of fire, called the second death.

Breaking God's laws/commands.

Study the word usage of propitiation. It actually satisfies God's wrath.

Justification breaks condemnation. Rom. 8:1 for starters.

Correct.

No one gets their name written therein. It was The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

No. Grace

No. Grace.

Except one believes.

Failure to believe; unbelief.

Those whose names were recorded by God from the creation of the world had One go in their stead. He lived for them, bled for them, died for them, rose for them, ascended for them, and will return for them. He quickens them, calls them, saves them, and then glorifies them. The others are left to their own devices.

Yes, in fact, Christ did.

Correct definitions.

Christ propitiated for sinners, correct. But we're at an impasse with our views here.

Christ propitiated for sinners, true. But until you better understand that meaning...

The sheep gladly receive the gift.

Sinners are dead in sins. Dead people can do nothing. Those quickened receive the gift of salvation, gladly.

 

hilasmos

•••an appeasing, propitiating
•••the means of appeasing, a propitiation


hilastērion

•••relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation
•••used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory
•••an expiatory sacrifice
•••a expiatory victim

Placate:
•••make (someone) less angry or hostile.

Expiatory:
•••able to make atonement or expiation; offered by way of expiation: expiatory sacrifices.

Christ's death does an actual work, not a potential.

 

This is a fallacy.
Only Christ can pay the penalty of sin; no other person is qualified to pay the penalty for our sin--no one!
Those, who because of their unbelief, end up in the Lake of Fire, are suffering the consequences of their unbelief. Thy are not paying the penalty that Christ already paid. They are paying the consequences of refusing the payment that was offered them. If they refused the gift of salvation, yes--of course, they will suffer the awful consequences of the rejection of the blood of Christ shed on their behalf.

 

Christ was not the "ransom" for all. Ransom is a payment. If payment was made for every single member of the human race, then all would be saved. He paid the ransom of many, not all. Paid the ransom for all types of people. Not every person.

ESV|For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

NLT|For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve*°others*and to give his life as a ransom for many.”*3.8%*difference

NKJV|For even the Son of Man*°did*notcome*to be served*,*but to serve, and to give°His*life*°a ransom for many.”13.2%*difference

HCSB|For even the Son of Man*°did*notcome*to be served*,*but to serve, and to give°His*life*°—*a ransom for many.”14.8%*difference

KJV 1900|For even the Son of*°man*came not to be*°ministered unto,*but to*°minister*, and to give his life*°a ransom for many*°.20.8%*difference

*Mark 10:45

 

Ah, you CAN be that dense.

Not 'everyone' according to your context-denying ways. Read the surrounding verses in chapter 2 of Hebrews. It does not mean every single soul that has and shall exist.

Read my comments above. And notice that propitiation puts away the wrath of God. Multitudes have and shall go to Perdition.They have not been propitiated. The wrath of God abides on them. For you to deny that is foolish.

You better start figuring out what the Scriptures actually teach. He doesn't give all eternal life. He doesn't reveal Himself to all. He does not know certain ones. He has those he calls brothers and sisters. He will bring many sons and daughters to glory. That does not mean the entire human race. Christ is the Surety for those for whom He died. He laid down His life for His sheep. The goats? Christ did not die for them.

Your conclusion is wrong because your premise is built on sand.

 

You are dredging up your old nonsense. It is so laughable. For you to declare that 2 Peter 2:1 is speaking of "the heresy of Limited Atonement" is something that someone along the lines of a David Cloud would come up with.

Go to any sound Bible commentary --even non-Calvinistic ones and see if there is any hint of your incredible lame ideas.

Out of order? That is rather tame compared with your earlier contention that it is damnable heresy.

Swing your heresy sword elsewhere. You speak as a foolish person when you charge your Calvinist brothers and sisters with doctrine worthy of eternal condemnation.

 

Huh? The payment was never for those who die in their sins, ergo, they die as sinners. They pay for their unbelief in the lake of fire.

 

Providing reconciliation for the whole world is an actual work. Why not address the actual position. Second, when a person receives the reconciliation, that too is an actual work.

Let me try again, Christ = hilasterion = means of salvation.

Our hilasterion is not the lid of the ark of the covenant, it is Christ Himself. Please address this truth. Christ is our propitiation or means of salvation.

 

I didn't read David Cloud. If that is what he said then maybe he is right. Perhaps you should listen to him.

Do you think I haven't?

I am not the one that uses the phrase "damnable heresy," blame the Holy Spirit if you will. Take your argument with God. Did you actually read the verse (2Pet.2:1)?

When God Himself calls it heresy what do you think your response should be?
That is up to you.

Here is what the Bible Knowledge Commentary, written by Walvoord and Zuck says:

 

Please answer this, DHK. Thanks.

 

The "sin" of unbelief is like any other sin: stealing, adultery, lying, etc.
There is a whole list of them in Rev.21:8

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Note "unbelief" is included here and is but one of many sins. It doesn't seem to be any greater or less important than the others.
Christ paid the penalty for our sins--all of them.
Those in the Lake of Fire are there because they have rejected Christ.
They are not paying for the penalty that Christ already paid. They are suffering the consequence for the rejection of the offer of salvation that Christ made or gave to them. Christ has already paid the penalty for sin.

 

The moral law written upon our hearts are the basic Ten Commandments minus the specific commandment "to keep holy the Sabbath Day."

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.)

IOW, they know the basic difference between right and wrong. It is written on their hearts. Their conscience bears witness to this fact. Also they begin to excuse themselves and begin to accuse others just like Adam and Eve did.

 

Brother DHK,

Do you consider rejecting Jesus a sin? If so, those in the lake of fire are suffering the penalty of their sin according to your own doctrine. If it is not a sin, why not?


Brother Joe

 

Of course it is a sin. They are suffering the consequence of their sin.
Jesus paid the penalty for it. We "suffer the consequence."
It is impossible for anyone to pay the penalty for sin. The penalty is too great to pay.

 

Many who end up in Perdition have never heard of Christ or the gospel, so they don't go there for rejecting Christ. They go there because of their sin.

If Christ paid the penalty for "everyone" --then why is anyone in Hades? Paid the penalty means no punishment --the sin debt was satisfied. Paid the penalty means they have been ransomed --they are redeemed. There is no way around it.

Those who are eternally condemned are certainly paying their penalty for their sin.

 

Revemwc,

Of course unbelief is a sin, "...whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23). Now you have a problem because Hebrews 9:26 tells us the purpose of Christ's death, " ... hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself". This would include unbelief as that too is sin, thus Christ's death couldn't be for every human being otherwise there would be nobody in Hell. Also, in your system, though Christ appeared "to put away sin", apparently he didn't accomplish this for all he had died for, thus he failed in his mission.

God bless,

Brother Joe