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Featured The Eternal Purpose of God in Christ

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Jul 31, 2015.

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  1. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I see nothing wrong with what you posted. We are to receive that with He bestows.
     
    #221 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2015
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    More often than not we make mountains out of molehills. Just an opinion.
     
    #222 DHK, Aug 10, 2015
  3. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    I sent that girl I work with a sermon through a PM on facebook from Paul Washer titled 'Repent & Believe'. He is a very gifted preacher.
     
    #223 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2015
  4. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Irresistible Love

    DHK wrote:

    PreachTony wrote:
    By using the verb ‘force’ our adversaries are united when insisting, in effect, we teach violence is committed by the Lord against man’s free will.

    Thus, they conclude we are mere puppets whose lives are manipulated by an evil Puppet Master.

    This is precisely the same argument used against the Apostle Paul when declaring the divine right of the Lord to have mercy on some and not all, leaving the rest dead in their sins for which they will be hardened in judgment and ultimately damned. (Romans 9:18)

    For since God has predetermined the eternal destiny of each man before they were born, they argue that, in effect, God has ‘forced’ His will upon all men without their consent.

    As a result, man has no choice but to obey His sovereign, irresistible will.

    That being the case, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? (Romans 9:19)

    In other words, how can a just God condemn men who are simply obeying His will of reprobation?

    What choice did they have?

    Our modern-day critics make several similar fundamental misapprehensions which lead them to a false conclusion.

    One such assumption is the power of man’s will. It is not free, but bound.

    1. Man is under the power and dominion of sin and Satan, his master. (John 8:34, 44)

    2. Man does not have the power to break those chains. Only God has that power. (John 8:36)

    3. Unless God draws him, man will not come to Christ for deliverance. (John 6:44, 65)

    Given the enslaved condition of man as described by Jesus, man is totally at the mercy of God to set him free.

    But the situation is a bit more complicated.

    Man, by nature, views the true God as his enemy and wants nothing to do with Him. In fact, he prefers Him dead. (Romans 8:7, Acts 2:23)

    In addition, many men deny they are sin sick and have no need for a physician. (Mark 2:17)

    And then there are those who seek healing and forgiveness through false gods. (John 4:22; Acts 17:23; Romans 1)

    Therefore, rather than permit the entire human race to destroy itself through its sin of unbelief and hatred of the true God, out of love the Lord has graciously chosen many to be vessels of mercy, destined to glory.

    He accomplished His will of good pleasure by sending His Son who took on flesh that He might perfectly fulfill the Law of God in the stead of the Chosen Ones, thereby qualifying as their sin offering which satisfied the justice of God.

    Once propitiated, the Father and the Son send forth the Holy Spirit who removes the enmity and the chains which bound the will, allowing the Chosen sinner to experience and respond positively to the love and mercy of God.

    I ask our critics, Did your wives ‘force’ you to love and marry them?

    Or was love and marriage your natural response?

    In like manner, when our Lord reveals Himself to the sinner by His Spirit, His love and grace is so overwhelming and undeniable that the sinner willingly and enthusiastically says, ‘Yes, I will marry you!’

    The truth of God’s irresistible saving grace is not to be despised, but to be praised and shouted from the roof tops.

    Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.
     
    #224 Protestant, Aug 10, 2015
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #225 DHK, Aug 10, 2015
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Again, where does that "saving faith" come from, does it reside in all sinners, or just to those whom God provided for to have?

    How can someone who is bound and enslaved by a fallen nature at war against God though freely decide that by themselves?
     
    #226 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2015
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is the big hang up here due to some not wanting to believe that sinners no longer have full free will remaining?
     
    #227 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2015
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Well, since the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit, and is also at war against God, then?
     
    #228 Yeshua1, Aug 10, 2015
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh:..:laugh::laugh::laugh:
    All wrong
     
    #229 Iconoclast, Aug 10, 2015
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    You laugh to the wind. You declare it wrong. But, as usual, you can't refute a single point. Sad.
     
    #230 DHK, Aug 10, 2015
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Uhhhhh hem!!! PreachTony?

    Pg. 18 post #175.
     
    #231 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2015
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Posted by Sovereign Grace:
    You are taking this parable and misapplying it.
    What is the point of the parable. It speaks toward the day of judgment.
    Walvoord summarizes it this way:
    Take the entire parable into account, not just your pet verses.
     
    #232 DHK, Aug 10, 2015
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Non mon ami, non. I would take not $1,000 and read Walvoord. That heretic calls the church, the church which Christ was beaten for, mocked for, spit upon for, nailed to cross for, pierced in His hands and feet for, and then His side after He died for, was buried for, was resurrected for, and ascended for, an interruption, an intercalation in God's plan for Israel.

    You really need to find someone better to quote. He was a heretic.
     
    #233 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2015
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Does anyone deserve heaven, DHK?

    Does anyone deserve God's grace monsieur?
     
    #234 SovereignGrace, Aug 10, 2015
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I do not deserve heaven, nor his grace; neither do you, nor does anyone.
    But then why did God create us. He created us as object of his love to bestow his love and grace upon us. He did not create mankind to choose or elect some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation. That is against his character, against the character of mankind who is made in the image of God.

    King Manasseh, he son of Hezekiah, made his children walk through the fire. He sacrificed them. They burned to death. Would you do the same with your children? Choose some to live and others to walk through a fire and burn to death. It is against man's nature. If man would not do such a terrible thing then why would God, for no good reason do the same thing. It does not glorify him. You say it does. But eternal damnation in the Lake of Fire brings no glory to God.

    I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked saith the Lord.

    He came to seek and to save the lost (not the elect).
    The lost are the world; those that are in need of a Savior.

    Those who freely receive his offer of salvation will be saved. They are not more worthy but more willing.
     
    #235 DHK, Aug 10, 2015
  16. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Not only does he not have the option to complain, Calvinist have always declared that those who are lost want nothing to do with forgiveness of sins and submission to God thus they would not and could not come to God and complain in the first place.

    But the part the Calvinist always leaves out when citing Ro 9 is vs22... "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction". This shows the love and patience of God, not willing that any should perish. If you read this in light of Calvinism, God is at work shaping and forming most people for the sole purpose that He may destroy them for His great pleasure.
     
    #236 steaver, Aug 10, 2015
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There was so many errors on this one post....I had to pull off the road and get to a place of safety before looking closely at it:laugh:

    I am at the key board now:wavey::wavey: I will refute this and seek to quarantine this post:thumbsup:
     
    #237 Iconoclast, Aug 10, 2015
  18. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Scripture has the answer:

    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Rev. 4:11)

    Answer: It was not out of necessity, as if something was lacking in God which required Him to create.

    It was purely out of His will of good pleasure because it pleased Him to do so.

    The sovereign Lord wills to have mercy upon those He freely chooses to have mercy for no other reason than it pleases Him to do so.

    It is from the same will of good pleasure that He passes by the majority of mankind, refusing to give them what they do not deserve: mercy.

    There is no cause for His decrees outside of Himself.

    His will is the final arbiter of truth, justice and grace.

    Does it disturb you that The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil? (Proverbs 16:4)

    This is exactly what Paul testifies to when he brings forth Pharaoh as a perfect example of a man created and raised to a position of great wealth, prestige and authority for the express purpose that he be destroyed by the hand of God in judgment.

    As the Supreme Potter it pleases Him to make vessels of mercy who will glorify His grace.

    Likewise it pleases the Supreme Potter (not Puppeteer) to also make vessels of wrath who will glorify His justice.

    You say you don’t believe God created most men in order that they may be righteously judged for the sins which they willingly committed?

    The Apostle Paul replies:

    Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?     (Romans 9:20-21)
     
    #238 Protestant, Aug 10, 2015
  19. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, you completely misinterpret the point Paul is making.

    Had Paul said, "What if God willing to show His mercy and to make His grace known endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction."

    But alas, Paul actually said the very opposite.

    The reason God puts up with the sins of the wicked as long as He does is because He waits for their evil to reach the perfect pitch to where He can judge them with even greater condemnation.

    This truth is exemplified by Mystery Babylon. Our Lord is waiting for the sins of the Roman Catholic Church to reach a fever pitch which He has predetermined. When reached, He will destroy the Vatican.

    And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

    5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

    6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.    (Rev. 18:4-6)
     
    #239 Protestant, Aug 10, 2015
  20. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13

    And Saul was consenting unto his death. Acts 8:1 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. 8:3 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:9:1-3

    Would you agree that Saul/Paul at this moment is in unbelief?

    And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

    And Saul/Paul was led into the city, being blind. Was he still spiritually blind at this time?

    Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

    The Lord told Ananias to go and lay hands on Saul/Paul thst he might reveive his sight for which Paul had been praying and had a vision, wonder where that came from. Ananias did not want to go foe he knew who Saul/Paul was and what he was up to. What did the Lord tell him?

    But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
    For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. Acts 9:15,16

    And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus,fn who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized. Acts 9:17,18

    Did Paul receive the Spirit of Truth?

    Jhn 14:17
    Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    Jhn 15:26
    But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me
    Jhn 16:13
    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    Now I ask, did Saul/Paul all of a sudden have some change of heart that welled up from within himself, and he repented and asked Jesus to come into his heart? Or, did God through his Son Jesus move Saul/Paul from unbelief unto belief because Saul/Paul was to be a chosen vessel of the Lord?

    Paul was going down the road in unbelief, was struck blind, showing him his unbelief, I believe and in three days receiving the Holy Spirit, received his sight, belief and almost immediately began to preach Jesus as the Christ the Son of God.

    What say you?
     
    #240 percho, Aug 10, 2015
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