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Featured The genuine gospel is neither Arminian nor Calvinist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndThisGospel, Jan 9, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not ALL though were to bsaved, but only those whom the Father gave unto Jesus to be saved!
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    In reply to what you said: "The only sin that is unpardonable is the sin of unbelief and, just like faith is a willful submission to the truth as it is in Christ, unbelief is a willful rejection to the truth that is in Christ." Just stop rejecting. Just stop sinning. Viola!

    The only reason I didn't persist was the efficacious grace of God. :)

    By seeing Christ, while on this earth, perform a miracle and attributing the power to do so to Satan, just as the narrative I posted says. :)
     
  3. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Titus 3:4 "But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared (i.e, about 2000 yrs ago) 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He (i.e., the Holy Spirit) poured out upon us richly in Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

    Rom 5:18 "So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men."
     
  4. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Do you agree with the following?

    "Irresistible grace (or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom He has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel..." [Wikipedia]
     
  5. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    "All men" have been saved by the doing and dying of Christ about 2000 years ago, but not all will yield to the Spirit of grace, not because they are predetermined to be lost, but because they persistently refused God's grace.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of ourhearts are already harden , as we are all dead in our sin natures, and it takes God to wake of spiritual death to life in Christ.

    And that act of te Pharisees was a specific sin of that time, as God was there an they basically called him Satan!
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is what the Bible teaches, so yes!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NO, its rather that whil te Death of Jesus sufficient to save all sinners, it was intended to be applied towards and save His elect...
    Not saved bsed upon my will, but upon His will..
     
  9. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    I disagree....To harden one's heart is to resist God's grace through His Spirit.

    Let's look at Eph 2:2 "And you (i.e., before Christ) were (spiritually) dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."

    Before we believed our flesh (sin nature) dominated our minds, i.e., what the flesh desired the mind wanted too. They were in harmony. There's nothing here about our hearts (minds) being hardened.
     
  10. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    No, absolutely not. The Bible doesn't teach this. Calvin? yes, but not the Bible....

    God doesn't have favorites. After all, God is agape. Agape is a love that is not self-seeking. See 1 Cor 13:5 Agape loves all men, unconditionally. God has saved "all men" in His Son, but not all men will respond to His love and the gift of salvation.
     
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Efficacious grace is the teaching that the Grace of God will always accomplish that which God intends it to accomplish. (That's what "efficacious" means.)

    Efficacious grace is John 10:29 in action.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All of us were effected and warpd by the Fall, so we were all aspects fallen and resisting God!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So God di not favor Israel then?.
    He chose the Jews to b his people, to have messih come thru them, and that was not a favorite of His?
     
  14. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    How do you know that God was playing favorites? Perhaps no one else was receptive to His plans? Besides, Paul states that "God does not show favoritism." Rom 2:11

    He chose Abraham and his descendants to usher in Christ, but the majority of the Jews rejected Him.
     
  15. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    So God wills that some (the elect) will be saved, but He wills others to be damned?

    That concept is hostile the gospel!

    "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us (believers) the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19

    Compare "the world" with the following:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God chose Israel from all other nations and established Covenant with them, so He did indeed"play favorites"

    Same thing tha He did between Jacob and Esau....
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Calvin held to that, but many calvinists do not, as I maintain tha His election and Predestination is towards His own elect, and He permits the rest to have thiwill get done and stay lost in sin!
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you don't think God is just to send sinners to hell? Do you believe you are more just than God?
    God's Justice is hostile to the Gospel?

    Do you think God should just pardon everyone for sending Christ to the cross?
     
  19. AndThisGospel

    AndThisGospel Member

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    Why? The other nations rejected Him.....Israel didn't, but time after time they turned to other gods. Every time they did they were either defeated and/or were made slaves. Then approximately 2000 years ago they, as a nation, rejected the Messiah. See Matthew 23:37-39 The Jewish nations is meaningless this side of the cross. Jews who wish eternal life must accept Christ as their righteousness.

    As far as you placing the sin of favoritism at the Lord's feet here is what the Bible states:

    Rom 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

    James 2:8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself,’ you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as law-breakers.

    Does God sin? No! It borders on blasphemy to accuse Him of sin. Favoritism is sin. Therefore God doesn't show favoritism.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to BB.
    However your statement is not biblical at all.the whole human race is not included in the blessings to the saints.
     
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