Featured Those who concede errors in the Scriptures n order to remove conflict with science

Bro. Greg....they coexist just fine for me (not pejorative). Your particular position may be correct, but it would seem to me to require that "death" in Genesis refer to actual physical death and not "spiritual death". I mean no disrespect toward you or anyone else. (I would ask the same). Blessings

 

Where does it say in the word of God, death did not exist until the sin of Adam. My understanding is the sin of Adam brought death to all men. As in Adam all die. Give it a thought. Before the man Adam sinned, before the man Adam was even created, the plan was the human born Son of God, the Lamb of God, would die, be slain, give his life as a ransom for one reason yet there is another reason. He would also die for this purpose found in Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Satan the devil. Throughout the word darkness represents Satan and is in contrast to light, God.

When Spirit the God began to move in Gen 1:2 he was moving in an already present dark dead world, the earth. I do not believe this is the earth the sons of God and morning stars shouted with joy over when God; Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; Job 38:4-6

Darkness, Satan and death, was upon the face of the deep.

 

This is the problem I see with the OET. If there was death before Adam, then death is not the penalty for sin. I see that death as both physical and spiritual. If that isn't true, then how did Christ's death pay the penalty for our sin? As John Morris puts it, "If death is not tied to Adam's sin, then life is not tied to Christ's death and resurrection, and the Christian faith is all in vain."

 

Sin brought into the creation of God death, so before the Sin of Adam, why would there had been death in paradise, or animals killing other animals ?

 

I don't believe there was. We can see in Gen. 1:29 what we were to eat as well as the animals.

 

Let's be careful about our reasoning: some are doing circular reasoning.

For example, liberals will come back and bite you in the behind if you latch onto the scripture saying there are 12 hours in a day. Well, not where I live, not in winter. So is scripture wrong?

As to death before the fall: if a day can only be a 24 hour period, and if the death brought by the fall is physical, then God must have lied because Adam and Eve did not physically die in the 24 hour period in which the fall occurred.

And point of honor: not all OEC believe in physical death for anything, including animal life, before the fall.

Some believe EXACTLY as do the YEC EXCEPT for the date it all happened.

 

I will say that I think it is pretty clear in Genesis that death (as a result of the fall) is BOTH spiritual (instantaneous) and physical(progressive or gradually). That is why we must be "Born Again" spiritually. It is also why it is generally smart to make a will and pre-plan your funeral. BOTH are an absolute certainty according to the first book of our Bible.
As to my adherence to YEC...I truly and genuinely believe that YEC is the only sane, rational explanation for the literal, historical account found in the Word of God. It is the only interpretation that does not savage the absolute authority of the scriptures while interpreting the OBSERVABLE (real science) geological and archaeological evidence that is available to us from the standpoint of a BIBLICAL worldview. In my opinion, all other attempts to explain our origins do so at some expense or damage to the scriptural account and that is simply unacceptable. The ENTIRE authority of the Word of God rests on the foundation that begins in Genesis 1:1. It IS that important. Merry Christmas everybody.:smilewinkgrin:
Bro.Greg:thumbsup:

 

Scripture is not wrong. You live in Colorado. I live in the northern part of Alberta, and if I drive a few hours north of here I have almost reached the land of the midnight sun. But the day is still 24 hours. Nothing has changed that. The earth still rotates on its axis; nothing changes that. No one is speaking of the length of sunlight you get in the daytime or the number of hours of darkness you have in the nighttime. Added together they still give you a 24 hour day. We are speaking of 24 hour days. And we are speaking in general terms just like they did back then. Everyone today speaks of our day as being a 24 hour day. I don't know of anyone that doesn't, unless they are specifically speaking of a subject like "how do we get leap years?" That is a specialized topic.

Death is separation; it always has been. The moment they ate from that tree they were separated from God. Their fellowship with God was broken. It was restored later on when God made coats of skin, an animal was killed, and blood was shed. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin." Death is separation. They died a spiritual death. All will die a physical death. If one is not born again, he will die an eternal death, and be separated from God for all eternity.

Then they are wrong. Just as the spirit is separated from body, so in animals when the soul is separated from the body it dies. Death is separation. Scripture:

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
--The body separated from the spirit is dead.
Death is separation. That is the Biblical definition of physical death.
It is true for animals as much as it is for man.

The date is approximately between 6000-10,000 years ago, and there is no reason to go beyond that.

 

DHK--I think you missed my point.

Yes, I live in Co. But I am not the liberals of whom I was speaking. Try the quote that was given in this thread that the day is 12 hours long and you WILL get folks arguing with you, depending on the time of year and where they live. So it opens the door for those people to close their minds entirely to the Bible.

And yes, the question of leap years and accuracy will come up if one is dogmatic about a 24 hour day. They WILL point out we don't know of a time a day was ever exactly 24 hours. And if we use your logic and point out we are speaking in GENERAL terms they will correctly point out that in GENERAL terms yom can mean a generally 24 hour day, or a generally finite period of time, or a general era like "the day of the corset for women."

And yes, I agree with you that the death spoken of was separation from God and that there had never been that before the fall. Which kind of tosses out the whole idea that there could have been no physical death of animals before the fall.

The Bible does not give us a date--we have to extrapolate that to come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years ago.

So many will agree with you on everything but the date, tell you that the Bible doesn't give us a date, and be unwilling to go beyond that.

My point isn't to argue for OEC or YEC or gap theory or any other interpretation. My point is to get us to understand the concept that my believing brother or sister who holds to a different understanding than mine may not be at all refusing to accept the Bible or trying to hold to a godless science and a pure Bible at the same time.

They may just understand the scripture differently than I do.

We cannot both be right, and may very well both be wrong.

Rather than foster Satan's kingdom by maligning each other over it, better we both turn our energy to a continuing study of God's word.

 

Who is on the left?

You surely realize many of the most conservative scholars of the past were OEC, do you not?

 

Lololol

Rev...I've heard of "molecules to man"....but "goo-to-you".....now THAT is priceless:laugh:! I,like you, choose to put my faith in the non-compromised Word of God. I simply don't have enough faith to believe in millions and billions of years of evolution. I always liked that illustration about putting a disassembled swiss watch in a paper sack and shaking it until you had a working watch again.....NOT Gonna Happen! "Goo-to you"...same thing....NOT gonna happen. (see Romans 1:21-23).God Bless You brother.

Bro.Greg

Bro.Greg

 

This is true. Some do believe so. I do not. I personally have not a problem with "physical death" prior to "the fall". For one thing, from the narrative in Genesis, it seems to be implied that the Tree of Life had some role in maintaining indefinite life, thus God banished man and woman from access to it.

 

You are reading stuff into Scripture that is not there. You might read on down through verse 10 before you think you have found the Holy Grail of the Gap Theory or whatever you are looking for.

 

Where does Scripture say there are 12 hours in a day or, for that matter, any number of hours in a day? The word hour does not appear in the Bible until the Book of Daniel.

Some folks are awful eager to tie the word lie to God. You do err not knowing Scripture. No where does God say that death was to be immediate if Adam sinned. I believe that spiritual death was immediate because God sought out Adam and Eve and provided a covering, an atonement, for their sin which required the shedding of blood to do so. In that sense physical death did enter creation soon after Adam sinned. As the consequence of Adam's sin those natural processes that result in physical death were set in motion; Adam and Eve began to die.

 

Name some!

 

http://www.oocities.org/vr_junkie/NotableOldEarthCreatinists.htm

 

I am impressed. I am sure these folks are also!

http://www.examiner.com/article/gro...-creationism-yec-a-fact-and-evolution-as-bunk