Featured What does this statement mean?

Exactly. I am glad to see you realize this. No man can be regenerated until his sins are washed away, and no man's sins are washed away until he believes on Christ. Therefore, faith MUST precede regeneration. This is truly logical, your position is not.

You were doing good, but now you resort to making up doctrine not shown in the scriptures.

Nope. You cannot be spiritually alive while you are still in your sins. The wages of sin is DEATH. Until your sins are removed you cannot be spiritually alive in any sense whatsoever.

No, first the word of God tells us we are sinners and on our way to hell. We are convicted by the word. This is repentance, it is a change of view about one's self. We no longer believe we are righteous in ourselves and can merit salvation.

When we hear of Jesus dying for us we are drawn by his love for us in that he would give his son to die for us when we were yet sinners.

When the word of God tells us that if we believe on Jesus we will be saved, NOW we are enabled to trust Christ. But we are still not regenerated or spiritually alive.

Now, the moment you trust Jesus, then your sins are forgiven and you are now spiritually alive.

You cannot be regenerated for even a millionth of a second before your sins are forgiven. While you remain in your sins you are spiritually dead.

And we see how Calvinists go astray with this false belief. We see on another thread a hyper-Calvinist who believes you are born regenerated, but only believe when you hear the gospel later. This could be many years. In his view, a person can be spiritually alive for years, yet still dead in all their trespasses and sins.

The teaching that regeneration precedes faith is utterly false. You can try to wiggle around it, but I think deep inside you know better. You are making up doctrine on the spot to reconcile doctrine that simply does not work, and is not scriptural.

Good luck making yourself believe that.

 

I am not making up any new doctrine. I am just pointing out two very well established Biblical doctrines (1) Regeneration versus (2) Justification and the implications of each, where they differ and what each involves.

The former imparts life to your person while the latter imputes life to your position "in Christ" before God. They are simeltaneous in action and therefore there is no millionth of a second between the two. The former is SPIRITUAL while the latter is LEGAL. The first has to do with being a "child" of God ("tekna" "child") while the latter has to do with being a legal heir of God ("huios" - "son"). The former is quickening by the Spirit while the latter is justifying by faith.

 

Care to share the scripture that shows this so-called "established" doctrine?

The scriptures say you must believe to have "life" period.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

No mention of a regeneration to believe here, John says this book (John) is written that folks might believe. All that is required to believe is God's word.

There is also no mention of life before faith. This verse says that these words are written so that folks might believe, and that believing they might have life.

I could list another half dozen verses that show you must believe to have life, you cannot show even one verse that says you must have life to believe.

You may be following the "established" doctrine of Calvinism, but your doctrine has no scriptural support. You cannot show it.

If you are fine with that, what can I say? I could never believe a doctrine that is not clearly stated in scripture.

 

Interesting. I thought you stopped sinning after you got saved. Now you say you keep on sinning after you get saved--while you "work out your salvation"? Do you enjoy it?

 

Have you stopped sinning? Be honest. Sometimes you say you have and sometimes you say you don't. I quote you as saying you are sinless, and then you say you are not sinless, but that you are perfect and holy.
Now again you say "Christians do stop sinning after they gets saved," an admission that you are sinless. Is that not correct?

You are also taking Scripture out of context. Let's look at it.
Philippians 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
From Gray's Concise Bible Commentary:

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
--This also agrees with the above. It is God that works your salvation out. He works in you, both to will and to do of his good pleasure. You must yield to his will.

I was only quoting what you said. Here it is again:

If God saves us WHILE we still have sins, then we are STILL in sin WHEN God saves us, right?

 

You can believe what you want. Believe that the moon is made up of green cheese if you like. What you believe about me is of no consequence to me. When I got saved the Lord changed me by his grace. I became a new creature in Christ. My manner of living was changed completely.

Since you don't know me you are not qualified to make any such statement.

I quoted you in this very post, or the one just previous to it.

And is this also an admission to sinlessness or is it just blind faith and pure naivete. You won't explain it.

I don't ever reject the Word of God. Often I reject your interpretation of the Word of God, and I often give you the reason why. Often you quote portions of the Word of God, but give no explanation, such as the phrase above. So no one knows what you are talking about. Maybe your are talking about a Hindu god. You are not very specific.

2 Corinthians 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
--No wonder you don't want to quote this verse or talk about it. You have taken it out of context AGAIN.
First, what has this verse got to do with "perfecting holiness in the fear of God."??
Second, it has to do with a specific situation which took place in the first epistle.

Aaah. This is the verse you meant. You added an extra 1 to the reference above. Is that the case?
Look carefully at the first phrase "Since we have these promises". What promises? Look back in chapter six.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
--Read the entire portion from verse 14 onward. He is speaking of separation from the world and ungodly things. Come out from among them.
And then he says:
2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
--He is not quite finished yet with the ungodliness of the world. Cleanse yourself from all that filthiness that has contaminated both your flesh and your spirit. The world can have a devastation effect on you.
"perfecting holiness in the fear of God" speaks of our sanctification in Christ. The word "perfecting" means maturity. We mature in our holy walk with Christ as we stay away from the world and fear God. It has nothing to do with perfection, per se, but with maturity, a mature walk with Christ. The word "perfect" often means "complete" or "mature." It is defined by its context. Most words are.
For example, "I am going to play catch "the ball" my grandson throws to me, has a different meaning then, "she word an evening gown to 'the ball' last night." The context gives the meaning of the word.

I did quote you. Since you don't define the words you use, and explain how you use them like I just did, one can only conclude that you use them in their primary meaning. What else would you have us to believe?

I explained to you what Phil.2:12,13 means. If you reject the meaning of it, there is not much I can do.

Why did I use Gray? Because I knew you wouldn't listen to Calvin or Gill
Besides the various sources I have on different computer software, and the internet itself, I have a library of over 2,000 books that I can access. IOW I can use the wisdom that God has given to other men. Remember Paul, in his last days, asked Timothy to bring him his books, and especially the parchments. He was a well read man that in the book of Acts in one sermon quoted from a Greek poet, and in Titus he quoted from Cretian philosopher. He read other books. But you would condemn him from quoting from secular sources because Greek poetry isn't inspired literature, and neither is the philosophy of the Cretes. But those portions are now inspired aren't they?

This is a false theology. "God can save them at any point...." That is not the promise of God. The promise of God is that those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ God will save at that moment. You don't believe in the promises of God. You believe in a works-based salvation.

That is not true either. This again is a false religion based on works. What God requires is that one admits he is a sinner and comes by faith to Christ and accepts his gift of salvation freely. There are no works involved as you suggest. There is no "obeying" involved. That is a false religion.

Abraham was saved, "when he believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." That was long before he ever offered Isaac. Offering Isaac had nothing to do with salvation. This is more evidence of a false religion.

God gives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the moment a person a believes in Christ. There is no subsequent blessing. You have described a salvation of works, something that Christianity does not teach.

 

More worthless personal opinions! Why don't you deal with the scriptures and the context and with the expositional comments I place before you? I will tell you why! You are ignorant of the scriptures and have no ability to do any exposition much less respond with expositional based comments - so you spout out hot air worth nothing! I gave you expositionally based comments. YOu don't even quote the scriptures or refer to the scriptures but give us "Thus Saith Moriah" as though you were God's oracle:sleep: For one who advertises "I Love God's Word" you don't even use it in your responses nor honor it by making expositionary or exegetical based comments! Just worhtless hot air!

 

There is truth there. Learn it.
He believed (was saved). Then he obeyed.

That truth is elaborated on in Romans 4:1-5. Study it.

Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
He was saved.
After that it talks about Abraham's works. He was saved first.

 

First define dead. James 2:26 gives you a hint.
Second, define faith.

It helps if we are on the same page here.

Third, do you realize the purpose of the Book of James, its context, why it was written? That also helps. You simply can't pull these verses out of the context of the book and use them to contradict what Paul has said in Romans 4:1-5. Why did you ignore that passage?

 

No I didn't distort what James said.
Here is the way the post went. Reread it.

I asked you to define "dead." You refused.
I asked you to define "faith." You refused.
I suggested you look and try and understand the context of James. You refused.
I suggested you look at how Abraham was saved as described in the epistle of Romans 4:1-5. You refused.

I didn't distort anything. You refused to look at Scripture.
Now concerning 2Pet.3:16, tell me who it applies to? Those who study the Scriptures or those who ignore the Scriptures.
It specifically says:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

You remain unlearned when you refuse to study the Word.

 

GE:

How many weirdo 'Christians' does one get .....

One plus point about that is one realises to answer every one is impossible .... Thank God!