I hope your church is not having this problem.
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Churches experiencing cash-flow problems
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
I didn't see one IFB church mentioned in that article. In fact, all I saw was unGodly United Methodists, RCCers, Episcopalians, Christ-rejecting Jews.....the only remotely Christ-centered church mentioned in tha article was one Evangelical Lutheran. And they only dropped one radio p[rogram.
Seems like God may be weeding out the chaff.
Why would you assume any of us went to one of these churches ?
Did you even read the article ?
Seems like God may be weeding out the chaff.
Why would you assume any of us went to one of these churches ?
Did you even read the article ?
I think you're reading too much into the article. Methodists are ungodly? John Wesley must have been quite a heretic. The article didn't mention Presbyterians, so I guess all the calvinists are okay.
Touche !! :laugh:
Joseph M. Smith
New Member
In my experience, when you plan for there to be a drop in giving, that is indeed what you get. People respond to vision, and if the vision is reduced, so is there motivation for giving.
That being said, I do think that this is a year in which pastoral and other staff salaries might well be held at no increase, since we are in a deflationary time and income streams like Social Security are being held at zero COLA.
I speak from the lofty perch of a retired pastor, and maybe I would think differently if I were still in that role, but I always found that people responded when there was a strong sense of movement forward. In 18 years at my church we slipped in giving behind the previous year only once, and that was a minuscule 0.1%, during a time of tension over a staff member's departure.
That being said, I do think that this is a year in which pastoral and other staff salaries might well be held at no increase, since we are in a deflationary time and income streams like Social Security are being held at zero COLA.
I speak from the lofty perch of a retired pastor, and maybe I would think differently if I were still in that role, but I always found that people responded when there was a strong sense of movement forward. In 18 years at my church we slipped in giving behind the previous year only once, and that was a minuscule 0.1%, during a time of tension over a staff member's departure.
Churches that don't plan well often experience cash flow problems at some point or another. I honestly don't know how some smaller churches do it. I pray for them all the time. Some of the finest examples of personal sacrifice are evidenced in these wonderful congregations.
That said we are beginning to see a significant shift in the culture in terms of giving. The genertion of WWII was educated and schooled in giving as a practice. Not so much with their kids. We have to begin to scale our ministries to consider this shift. Another significant shift is that young people and young families seem more inclined to give to causes than institutions. This impacts how we go about teaching giving.
In the church where I serve we have placed a moratorium on hiring and building (we really don't need to build anyways) It is the wise thing to do. Our people have consistently given though the total amount is down a bit. But we prepared for it. We also have been contributing to an endowment for the church so we can have resources available to help those in need when things get really bad. Thankfully we haven't had to tap it.
One of the problems many mainline churches are facing is their congregations are leaving and they aren't seeing young families repopulate the pews. More biblically aligned churches are growing and seeing strength in their members. I honestly don't expect the Episcopalian church (as we see it today) to exist much beyond the next generation. (Of course if the COE recognizes the North American Anglicans its game over faster.)
Cash flow and money are constant problems and it will only get worse. We need a generation of committed pastors who are willing to be bivocational. That alone would help so many of our churches. It is hard to consistently do ministry when over 50% your budget is taken up in personnel. Another factor for some churches is the debt load they have taken on the past several years. Fantastic buildings are nice, but when that debt service hampers your ability to do ministry that can cause deep problems.
That said we are beginning to see a significant shift in the culture in terms of giving. The genertion of WWII was educated and schooled in giving as a practice. Not so much with their kids. We have to begin to scale our ministries to consider this shift. Another significant shift is that young people and young families seem more inclined to give to causes than institutions. This impacts how we go about teaching giving.
In the church where I serve we have placed a moratorium on hiring and building (we really don't need to build anyways) It is the wise thing to do. Our people have consistently given though the total amount is down a bit. But we prepared for it. We also have been contributing to an endowment for the church so we can have resources available to help those in need when things get really bad. Thankfully we haven't had to tap it.
One of the problems many mainline churches are facing is their congregations are leaving and they aren't seeing young families repopulate the pews. More biblically aligned churches are growing and seeing strength in their members. I honestly don't expect the Episcopalian church (as we see it today) to exist much beyond the next generation. (Of course if the COE recognizes the North American Anglicans its game over faster.)
Cash flow and money are constant problems and it will only get worse. We need a generation of committed pastors who are willing to be bivocational. That alone would help so many of our churches. It is hard to consistently do ministry when over 50% your budget is taken up in personnel. Another factor for some churches is the debt load they have taken on the past several years. Fantastic buildings are nice, but when that debt service hampers your ability to do ministry that can cause deep problems.
Umm, the article said "United Methodists" and that was clear in my post. Learn to read.
We're finding giving down but that's what happens when people lose their jobs. We didn't get a raise last year (in March) and I'm not sure we'll get one this year. We also don't have direct deposit right now because we're counting on this week's contributions to pay payroll but we're meeting every bill that's there each week. So things are tight - but not terrible. The good thing? We have zero debt as a church.
Here in Michigan you would not find much sympathy over the lack of a raise.
Our unemployment rate is over 15% and we have been in our own little recession for four years now.
I know a great many people personally who have taken as much as a 30% pay cut just to keep their job.
I am guessing that it could be 10 years before we get back below 10% unemployment.
Churches should not borrow - period.
Yeah, some have them.
In our church, we have a policy that we never charge for the Gospel or related outreach programs. We also have a scholarship for people who want to take our classes, but can't afford the materials.
So, typically, this means that we rely on a lot of bake sales and things like that. We have a fundraiser every spring called "Spring Tune Up", where people bring in their bicycles, lawn mowers, and pretty much anything with a small engine (this spring, we're going to add blade sharpening for axes, clippers, etc) for repairs and tune ups.
The one we did last year funded our scholarships and our evangelism team for the whole year (or, at least it will by the time the year is over), and we even have a little left over to put toward a bus for the church.
I agree. We certainly don't look for sympathy especially since so many in the congregation have lost jobs or had pay cuts. We're making it - not well but we're making it. We DID cut out for now our retirement contributions since we have a daughter in college and we need to be able to pay for that. We're OK for retirement so it's not like we're cutting our future.
Noted. So you believe all episcopals are ungodly?
They are an error filled protestant denomination.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just confused by your post. There are numerous Eposcopal denomiantions, and I think it's a bit of a broadbrush to call them all ungodly. On a sidenote, certainly, you don't think that IFB's are error-free, do you?
Perhaps this is better left to a separate thread so as not to hiajack this topic.
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Just Wait for Senate to Pass Cap and Tax
You think churches have problems now. Just think what would happen if Senators Graham/Kerry etc. have their way with cap and tax.
"Under my cap and trade plan, electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket." Obama [search You Tube]
Much less money for church goers. Much higher costs to heat/cool big church buildings, etc.
You think churches have problems now. Just think what would happen if Senators Graham/Kerry etc. have their way with cap and tax.
"Under my cap and trade plan, electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket." Obama [search You Tube]
Much less money for church goers. Much higher costs to heat/cool big church buildings, etc.
...just wanted to add that we're also mulling over a fund to help parents who can't afford to homeschool their children mitigate the effects of a parent leaving the workforce.