Why The Caner Double Standard

[Peggy]

Did he serve in Vietnam? Just curious?

hahahaha!

He hasn't claimed that (yet) on his resume :laugh:

Even he knows that he is a little too young to have served in Vietnam. But there is always Desert Storm service to claim.

By the way, why does every thread get highjacked and off track - example - the current off track dispute over elders? I try to keep on subject when I am posting and I want to say something off the topic of the original post, then create a new thread. Just saying.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

hahahaha!

He hasn't claimed that (yet) on his resume :laugh:

Even he knows that he is a little too young to have served in Vietnam. But there is always Desert Storm service to claim.

By the way, why does every thread get highjacked and off track - example - the current off track dispute over elders? I try to keep on subject when I am posting and I want to say something off the topic of the original post, then create a new thread. Just saying.

It questions the distinctiveness of Baptist. The very root of the issues. I peronsally believe Baptist are a amalgamation of different reformation schools depending on where a particular group was. In the end. Add a little bit of Zwigili her, then add a bit of Calvin there and you may or may not have a baptist body of believers.

 

[Peggy]

It questions the distinctiveness of Baptist. The very root of the issues. I peronsally believe Baptist are a amalgamation of different reformation schools depending on where a particular group was. In the end. Add a little bit of Zwigili her, then add a bit of Calvin there and you may or may not have a baptist body of believers.

I agree. When you devolve all authority to the local church, you shouldn't be surprised that local churches (who call themselves Baptist) would have different beliefs on periphery issues.

Anyway with the whole Caner controversy, it makes me less likely to sign up with Liberty. To be honest, I'm going back and forth on whether or not to take classes from them and pay all that money.

 

[Rippon]

Anyway with the whole Caner controversy, it makes me less likely to sign up with Liberty. To be honest, I'm going back and forth on whether or not to take classes from them and pay all that money.

My speculation is that the rates may go down somewhat with all the bad press Liberty is getting and will continue to get about the whole Caner affair. It will get even more bad press if they merely give Caner a mild slap on the wrist and retain his presidency of the seminary.

 

[John Toppass]

Are you saying he should be endorsed as the next SBC president?

Where did I even elude to that? Why do people try to twist what someone has said to say something that has never been said? That is a type of deceit that we read about in third chapter of Genesis.

It is also no better if not worse than the deceit that Caner seems to have committed.

 

[gb93433]

Where did I even elude to that? Why do people try to twist what someone has said to say something that has never been said? That is a type of deceit that we read about in third chapter of Genesis.

It is also no better if not worse than the deceit that Caner seems to have committed.

Did you not write in post #51, "A large portion of the negativity is coming from people who did not care for Caner to start with, they just did not have a legitimate reason as to why." in judgment of others and present it as fact? So I wrote in response to post #51 about your judgment. It sounded like you were making assumptions about people who wanted him investigated as though they were against him and wanted to get rid of him from the start. Even in your post now you are making an assumption that is not necessarily true. Is your judgment no better than a lie found in six things the Lord hates, no . . . . . .? Is that the type of deceit we read in Genesis 3?

 

[gb93433]

Why do people try to twist what someone has said to say something that has never been said?

What proof do you have to prove that anyone twisted anything? If you do then I would suggest that you provide the proof and rebuke them. Otherwise your proof is nothing more than speculation and personal opinion.

 

[Martin]

He is a murder in the same sense that the Roman clergy at civil trials were murderers for the inquisition.

==With one swipe you have thrown aside all of the historical facts in favor of an anti-John Calvin opinion. As I have said, Calvin had no say in the fate of Servetus. The proof of this is his request to change the method of execution. His request was not carried out. If you want to blame someone for the death of Servetus blame the little council of Geneva and Michael Servetus. While I don't believe we should execute heretics, I do believe Servetus was a heretic who has most likely burned twice (if you get my drift). If he had stuck to medicine and stayed out of Geneva or repented of his sinful statements he would not have been executed (via any method).

I'm not defending the Roman clergy in this but to use the same argument in favor of Catholic Clergy who did not kill the heretics themselves but accused them and approved them for death by the civil authorities is no greater an offence than Calvin doing the same thing. Though you do suggest and I agree he was wrong for complicity.

==First, there was very little separation of church/state then as there is today. Often civil/church authorities were the same or closely connected. That is one reason why they believed it was right to execute heretics. They, protestant and Catholic, believed the government should use the sword against those who do wrong in every area including theology. While I don't believe that is a correct understanding of Romans 13, I would not go so far as to accuse any one person of murder simply because they agreed with the system (generally or specifically).

Second, while Calvin (as far as we know) had no problem with the execution of Servetus, the matter of his execution was not in Calvin's hands. Calvin was right to call the heretic down on his heresies. However, as I have already said, I think he should have stayed clear of the trial. If for no other reason he should have stayed clear because he gave those who disagree with him a wonderful red herring argument to use whenever they want to argue against Calvinism without dealing with the points of doctrine. I've seen it done time and time again mainly with the issue of eternal security.

Third, Calvin was certainly morally and theologically wrong for his complicity in the execution of Servetus. However I don't believe he can rightly be charged with murder. Poor judgment, yes. Poor theology (on this point), you bet. Having a big blind spot, certainly. However the murder charge seems to be rather extreme.

 

[Mississippi John]

FUNDIES ALWAYS EAT THEIR OWN , FIRST...............Selah.

 

[TomVols]

an elder led Church is not a Baptist idea, at least in terms of its original origins. Some early Baptist Churches may have held to it, but it was primarily due to Presbyterian influence.

Whether or not it came from Presby influences (most of our Baptist forefathers did have presby fingerprints from their days at those types of seminaries, etc.) is not the question at hand you brought up. The question was was it a Baptist practice. History tells us unquestionably so.

I'm not saying it's correct. I'm saying it's historical. Even single-pastor led adherents like Paige Patterson, et al., agree their position is not the historical one.

Then again, is there much that did germinate from Baptists? Aren't we pretty much copy cats? :tongue3:

Thank God for the Presby forefathers who influenced our Baptist forefathers, by the way. Who knows where we would be without them.

(BTW, what the heck does this have to do with Ergun?)

 

[Dale-c]

Ok, back to the OP, here is more evidence of the double speak from Caner.
If you recall a while back when he gave a half hearted response to all of this, he tried to say that Arabic was not his first language so we should all give him a break when he messes it up.

Watch this video and see him brag about his arabic linguistic skills.

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3936

 

[Revmitchell]

Ok, back to the OP, here is more evidence of the double speak from Caner.
If you recall a while back when he gave a half hearted response to all of this, he tried to say that Arabic was not his first language so we should all give him a break when he messes it up.

Watch this video and see him brag about his arabic linguistic skills.

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3936

Just one more example of those who want him destroyed.

 

[John Toppass]

What proof do you have to prove that anyone twisted anything? If you do then I would suggest that you provide the proof and rebuke them. Otherwise your proof is nothing more than speculation and personal opinion.

Originally Posted by gb93433
Are you saying he should be endorsed as the next SBC president?

There is the proof you wanted. You had to do a lot of twisting and misleading to assume I was endorsing anyone, much less Caner.

But as commanded by my Lord, I forgive you, lest I be judged in my imperfect life.

 

[Peggy]

Dr. Caner has a tendency to make things up as he goes along, methinks.

For an example, he said Massachusetts was named after the Catholic Mass. hahaha!

I am watching the "Baptist History" lectures on DVD, and being the geeky student of history that I am, I know there are several misstatements just on the first three lectures.

It's sad that this misinformation is going out to sem students to be propagated throughout their churches.

 

[Dale-c]

Just one more example of those who want him destroyed.

While Mo Kahn probably does not care for Caner at all, how does that make his videos untrue?

Can't you see? Those outside the church see this and mock. That is why it is so important for those of us inside the church to hold our leaders to standards of honesty and integrity.

You are right that the unbelievers just want to take Christians down oftentimes. Things like this give them an excuse.

However we as Christians should not want him destroyed, neither should we ignore his sin. Rather we should call for his repentance and then work to restore him as a brother in Christ.

One more thing, do you even have an answer for that? Or are you going to just continue with the ad hominem against anyone who would point out his lies?

 

[Dale-c]

revmitchell, please asnwer this direct question:
Did he or did he not claim in that video to have spoken fluent arabic before learning english?
And did he, or did he not claim that Sweedish was actually his original language in his younger days and that he did not really know arabic that well?
Which was it?

Can you explain that?

 

[Rippon]

While Mo Kahn probably does not care for Caner at all, how does that make his videos untrue?

This bothers me also. Folks just point out that he's a Muslim so we shouldn't pay attention to his lies. However, "his lies" are actually factual. He has just demonstrated from Caner's own mouth how the latter has made a ton of things up out of thin air.

Can't you see? Those outside the church see this and mock. That is why it is so important for those of us inside the church to hold our leaders to standards of honesty and integrity.

This is another thing that frustrates me. Certain professing Christians are not really concerned with the truth. They are angry that a celebrityof theirs has been exposed. They do not get the idea that the non-Christian world is watching the hyprocrisy. How can those claiming to be Christian leaders deceive so much for so long without the Christian community disciplining them?

Would Liberty University or Seminary students be given a pass with even half of the lies that Ergun has told?

However we as Christians should not want him destroyed, neither should we ignore his sin. Rather we should call for his repentance and then work to restore him as a brother in Christ.

Agreed. But some think that those such as myself who want Caner to voluntarily step down are haters. They think that calling for his resignation amounts to destroying him. Actually it might be the best medicine for his soul. It would require humility on his part.He has to take the bull by the horns and own up to his sin -- in a public venue. Liberty must insure that this takes place -- or they will be complicit in a whitewash job.There are signs that they may just want to quell things by being in denial. But the public -- Christian and unsaved alike -- and particularly the press, will not let this mess be unresolved.

 

[Dale-c]

Agreed. But some think that those such as myself who want Caner to voluntarily step down are haters. They think that calling for his resignation amounts to destroying him. Actually it might be the best medicine for his soul. It would require humility on his part.He has to take the bull by the horns and own up to his sin -- in a public venue. Liberty must insure that this takes place -- or they will be complicit in a whitewash job.There are signs that they may just want to quell things by being in denial. But the public -- Christian and unsaved alike -- and particularly the press, will not let this mess be unresolved.

Exactly.
I should add that restoration in this case only means as a layman in the church. He has no business, even if he repents being in the ministry any time soon.

A few years down the road? I am not sure, maybe.

But at this point he needs to repent, step down from his job, be faithful in a local church and leave the public radar altogether.
Oh, and take his lies off the market (books, audio, video etc)

 

[gb93433]

Just one more example of those who want him destroyed.

A liberal disregards Heb 13:7, "Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith."

What is the outcome of Caner's life? What are we to consider?

 

[gb93433]

This is another thing that frustrates me. Certain professing Christians are not really concerned with the truth. They are angry that a celebrityof theirs has been exposed. They do not get the idea that the non-Christian world is watching the hyprocrisy. How can those claiming to be Christian leaders deceive so much for so long without the Christian community disciplining them?

Those who trust an antagonist are always angry by the damage he leaves behind. Antagonists come in many forms and study their subjects well.