"Does regeneration precede or follow faith?" I'm writing a paper on this

zrs6v4...

I am a retired businessman--not a seminary student, professor, and even a minister. However, I will give you my thoughts on your first post.

I think you need to define the various theological concepts (e.g., regeneration, faith, election, effectual calling, sanctification, glorification, etc.).

Do you plan on including the Arminian or Wesleyan (Methodist) approach to these theological concepts, which may differ from the reformed (your first option) and whatever umbrella you call the second option. I have found Thomas Oden's Systematic Theology (3 volumes) to be accessible for those of us without ThD after our name.

Of course, you will also want to check Wayne Grudem's book (reformed perspective), as well as the other standard Baptist systematic theologies.

You also should prepare a reference list (bibliography) of the sources you plan to consult for your paper. Doing this early in your research may save you time at the completion of the paper.

I know you may be thinking of writing to please your professor. However, such an important paper, if researched and well written, can be a document you keep for the rest of your life, and possibly preach from (if that is your calling).

I hope this helps.

...Bob

 

First off, you need to define regeneration, the word. It only appears twice in the NT: Mt 19:28 which refers to he future restoration of everything; and, Titus 3:5 which refers to the change in an individual. There are other verses which use relative terms relating to the "new birth" John 3:3, 7; 1 Peter 1:3, 23.

With just these compare regeneration in relation to "grace through faith" which is the biblical order of election. Man makes a choice out of election and predestination and we call this the regenerative action of man; the radical and permanent change in a person's outlook performed by the Holy Spirit.

Trust this helps. Yes, I am a firm calvinist, but differ to Grudem on the permissive will of God and man's free will.

Cheers,

Jim

 

What? No King James Bible on the eve of the 400th anniversary!

. . .

I live in central Kentucky--but my roots and dreams are the Appalachian Mountains of eastern Kentucky.

Go Wildcats!

...Bob

 

I recommend to you Elder Michael Gowens essay, 'Born Again, The Doctrine of Effectual Calling':

http://www.sovgrace.net/index.php/t...-born-again-the-doctrine-of-effectual-calling

 

Jim, What are the odds of the two in bold meaning the same?

BTW to answer the OP the faith came before the regeneration.

 

ZR, I believe the biblical position is faith and regeneration happening simultaneously, not one preceding the other. The moment we are in Christ we pass from death to life.

There have been many threads on here on this over the past 5 years, I would search the archives.

 

Forget Grudem.....read berkof,hodge or boyce...here is some boyce;
[QUOTE1. From the fact that the heart is the soil in which the seed, the word of God, is sown, and that seed only brings forth fruit in the good soil. The heart is made good soil by regeneration.

2. Regeneration (as in infants) may exist without faith and repentance, but the latter cannot exist without the former. Therefore, regeneration precedes.

3. Logically the enabling act of God must, in a creature, precede the act of the creature thus enabled. But this logical antecedence involves actual antecedence, or the best conceptions of our mind deceive us and are not reliable. For this logical antecedence exists only because the mind observes plainly a perceived dependence of the existence of the one on the other. But such dependence demands, if not causal, at least antecedent existence. Here it is only antecedent.

VI. There is not only antecedence, but in some cases an appreciable interval.

1. This is true even of conversion regarded as a mere turning to God. Between it and regeneration must intervene in some cases some period of time until the knowledge of God's existence and nature is given, before the heart turns, or even is turned towards that God.

(1.) This must be true of all infants and of all persons otherwise incapable of responsibility, as for example idiots.

(2.) There is no reason why it should not be true of some heathen. The missionaries of the cross have been sought by men, who knew nothing of Christianity, but whose hearts, unsatisfied with the religion of their fathers, were restlessly seeking for what their soul was crying out.

2. It is still more manifestly true of full Christian conversion.

(1.) The Scriptures teach this in many examples of persons pious, holy, and fearing God, yet unacquainted with the full truth which secures union with Christ.

Ethiopian Eunuch: Acts 8:26-40.

Paul: Acts, chapter 9, 22 and 26. Galatians, chapters 1st and 2d.

Cornelius the Centurion: Acts 10:2.

Lydia: Acts 16:14.

(2.) The experience of ministers in all ages with persons seeking and attaining salvation confirms this idea. The attainment of conversion
][/QUOTE]

 

Yes and I'm trying to remember what was that team that beat them this past Saturday....

 

You are about to pass into the nether regions of the "lapsarian" theological positons (ordo salutas or "order of God's decrees")

Note before you dive in that though each of the various positions stipulate this, then that, many of the points that are laid out are concurrent, but examined as if they are along a line that happens in time for discussion sake.

Here are a few links that may help guide you.

The chart in the first link will be very helpful for your study.

http://www.theopedia.com/Order_of_God's_decrees
http://www.theopedia.com/Supralapsarianism
http://www.theopedia.com/Infralapsarianism
http://www.theopedia.com/Sublapsarianism

 

Charles Spurgeon recognized the folly of saying that the sinner must be regenerated before he can believe:

"If I am to preach the faith in Christ to a man who is regenerated, then the man, being regenerated, is saved already, and it is an unnecessary and ridiculous thing for me to preach Christ to him, and bid him to believe in order to be saved when he is saved already, being regenerate. Am I only to preach faith to those who have it? Absurd, indeed! Is not this waiting till the man is cured and then bringing him the medicine? This is preaching Christ to the righteous and not to sinners." [Sermon entitled The Warrant of Faith].

 

I can see the two happening close together and maybe even simultaneously. But even if there is not a chronological order, I think there is a logical order, because one is the result of the other.

My view, of course is that regeneration results in faith. I also hold that repentance is a gift (2 Tim 2:25) and faith is a gift (Phil 1:29), so it is entirely possible that regeneration, repentance and faith could come at the same time, or in quick succession.

 

Regeneration is the new birth. It is passing from spiritual death (separation) to spiritual life (union). I believe it is synonymous with salvation, justification...the completed event. All of these only occur one way...by being in Christ.

My suggestion was simply for the fact you can probably find any Scripture supporting each position in a central location.

 

We do get in trouble when we attempt to apply very human-finite logic to the infinite problems of God, don't we?

Take the number of the elect, for instance. Not once in the Scriptures are we given a number to work with, just that they are... Yet, we decide that that means some given number, and we then formulate theologies based on our reaction to those numbers. :tonofbricks:

In the area of "salvation" regeneration is but one of the component parts of the process. We use a logical order and define the points in a similar way, but in fact, many are concurrent and/or instantaneous.

 

I think logical as opposed to chronological is a matter of semantics and actually is relative depending on the "logic" used, not to mention any such logic is finite.

I don't buy the notion one has to result in the other. Looking at things in a linear aspect is always flawed.