freeatlast
New Member
If it was my child I would put the whip or rod to his back if it were leagal and then send him to the courts to do it again.
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More hate crime idiocy--folks...it's a CRIME.
- Thread starter rbell
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If it was my child I would put the whip or rod to his back if it were leagal and then send him to the courts to do it again.
Hate does not need to be raised to the level of a crime. The penalty for the crime itself is sufficient regardless of the motive.
When I was a kid, I was playing ball with some friends at recess. The game was just to throw a raquetball up against the wall of the school and be the first to catch it.
So I threw the ball "just a bit outside", as Bob Uecker would say, and missed the wall completely. The ball took an errant bounce and went up a little girl's skirt. I was hauled to the principle's office and there was a big meeting with the Child Study Team, my parents, the girl's parents, etc. The girl and her parents accepted my apology (the girl's father felt so bad about the whole debacle that he ended up apologizing to me) and everything was cool, except for the school.
They wanted me to undergo counselling as some kind of sexual deviant.
They sent me to a psychologist and when I walked in, he told me that he had talked to the Child Study Team about what happened and wanted to hear my version of it. I explained to him that we were just playing a game and I threw a wild pitch. His response? "That's what we thought, but the school has a strict zero-tolerance policy so you and I still have forty-five minutes to kill. Want to play cards?" I started to cry because I was told that this was going to be on my...say it with me altogether: PERMANENT RECORD!
He laughed and said, "As a grown up, I've sworn an oath never to reveal this information to children, so you can't tell anybody I told you, but there's no such thing as a permanent record. It's just something grown ups make up to scare kids. Like when your parents tell you they're going to send you to military school."
He then went back to the school and told them that they ought to be ashamed for putting me through it and wasting his time.
They actually sent me to Lakeland (a mental institution in Blackwood NJ) for counselling because I had lousy ball control. And this was back in the 70's. They'd probably have me shot if it happened today.
But I digress.
freeatlast
New Member
That is true, but there are tmes when crimes are done out of prejudice (hate) and they need to be delt with with special sentences. Our courts seem to have lost their way and in levying these sentences and this example is a good reason to have them. Under hate crimes laws certain sentences have to be given and that is good.
You can't have it both ways. You cannot say what I said is true and then make an argument against what you agreed with. We do not need to make thought i.e. hate or prejudice a crime. If it is not a crime without an illegal action ( and shouldn't be) then neither should it be a crime with an illegal action. The illegal actions and its sentence is enough. Thought crimes are a slippery slope.
ABSOLUTELY.
"Thought crimes." Well put. Thanks for the "1984" reminder; we needed it.
Not to mention: the article states that this boy also cut the hair of a couple of other girls, without any mention of religion being involved in those instances
kyredneck said:
It is no secret that most of the Jewish groups have been traditionally liberal, and that they aligned themselves with other minority pressure groups. That is a long way from showing that Hate Crime laws are from "dajooz" as you say, or that you risk going to prison for saying it. Most of the mainline minority organizations have sought special treatment under the law. Course, with your special Jew-Detector-X-Ray Specs that is what you will see.
The Occidental Observer is as biased as any of the groups that they ‘expose’. In fact they are paranoid to the extreme about the Jews, and at one point claimed that Jews wanted to exterminate White Americans.
kyredneck said:
I think I won't play that game. Pretty sure that you will be able to find some connection between any minority organization and a Jew somewhere.
That's an understatement. In most cases they don't just align themselves with minority pressure groups, they organize and fund them. The guise of defending the underdog has always been the Marxist strategy.
I used the word to make a point. If you wish to try to make me appear hateful or anti-semitic or paranoid for doing it, then so be it. It's a smear tactic on your part. The fact is that the Bolsheviks sent thousands off to concentration camps for less than that. I'm not naive enough to believe it can't/won't happen again.
Again, who organized them?
Again, another smear tactic on your part.
But ignorance can be bliss, I guess. Sometimes I wish I would have taken the blue pill.
The coming hate speech/ hate crime laws should eliminate such alternative news sources. Perhaps that will please you?
Uh, are you deliberately misrepresenting the gist of the article or did you even take the time to read it? Though he may be a bit extreme, the author is attempting to make a point from history; the Bolshevik takeover of Russia with the period of Jewish dominance that followed it. The comments of the Jewish writer doesn't concern you?
This is true. We're not discussing some trodden down persecuted helpless group here. They are an international elite with great wealth, power, and influence. They have a hand in just about anything they desire.
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And the funny thing is that it is the leftists/Marxists who define Jews and White Americans as the power elite, people who deserve no sympathy or respect and who need to be taken down. You're just borrowing leftest talking points. Or half of them anyway.
kyredneck said:
No effort on my part is required.
This is about as clear as mud. Care to clarify it? I'm not borrowing anything from the left.
I remember decades ago when LBJ was in office and welfare had begun my Dad explaining to me then that 'the government' was concerned about communists moving in and influencing the poor and converting them over to communism and that's why 'the government created welfare; to counteract the influence of the communists. He said that was how the communists always started to take over a country, with the poor first. I didn't understand what Dad meant about the communist stratedgy then, I do now. If I borrowed it from anyone, it came from Dad.
Show me where/how I have been hateful, if you can.
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FR7 Baptist
Active Member
forget it......
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.....ok.....
Anti-Semitism has run throughout Marxism right from the start.
Marx wrote a paper titled A World Without Jews: "The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange."
Lenin wrote: "Whoever directly or indirectly puts forward the slogan of a Jewish "national culture" is an enemy of the proletariat, a supporter of the old and of the caste position of the Jews, an accomplice of the rabbis and the bourgeoisie."
Socialist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon wrote in the 19th century: "This race poisons everything by meddling everywhere without ever joining itself to another people...The Jew is the enemy of the human race."
During the recent protests in the UK, students who were waving the flag of the Socialists Workers Party shouted, "Aaron Porter we know you, a filthy Tory Jew"
kyredneck said:
Just substitute 'DaWhiteBoys' for 'dajooz' and we would likely consider it a hateful comment.
All that said, I think the hate crime laws are a mistaken idea and are basically a power play used by certain groups to gain leverage over others.
I honestly don't have time for this right now but here's some info (much from Jewish sources) for you to consider:
“.....In 1917, Jewish international bankers and activists overthrew the Russian czar, spawning the global cancer of communism. Twentieth century liberalism is the off-scouring of Jewish-inspired socialism and communism. These facts are all documented by prestigious sources-many of them Jewish! (See, Jewish Activists Created Communism and Why Most Jews Support the Hate Bill) “
http://www.rense.com/general93/des.htm
“.....The Jewish Encyclopedia (Socialism, p. 418) frankly points out that “Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception.” “Scientific socialism,” or what we call communism, says the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia in its article on socialism, “originated in the combination of Jewish Messianic feeling with German philosophy…” 1 Marx, of course, was Jewish. But, just as important, Jews at all levels, from high financiers like the Warburgs, Schiffs and Rothschilds to rugged revolutionaries like Trotsky, Kamenev, Sverdlov and Zinoviev, made the success of communism possible.
Gary Allen in his book None Dare Call It Conspiracy, pp. 68-75, fingers those key Jewish financiers, especially Max Warburg in Germany and Jacob Schiff in America, who provided millions to arm and subsidize Jewish revolutionaries returning to Russia under the leadership of Trotsky. Schiff, head of the international banking firm of Kuhn, Loeb and Co. (now Chase Manhattan) was particularly influential. Quoting the New York Journal-America of February 3, 1949 out of Allen’s book: “Today it is estimated by Jacob’s grandson, John Schiff, that the old man sank about $20,000,000 for the final triumph of Bolshevism in Russia.” (Remember, that was when a common wage for adult hard labor was several dollars per day.) 2
Jews Tell Us Communism was Jewish
Let's ease into this controversial subject by introducing some mild, yet tantalizing quotes from the authoritative Encyclopedia Judaica’s article on Communism.
The Communist movement and ideology played an important part in Jewish life, particularly in the 1920’s, 1930’s, and during and after World War II…Individual Jews played an important role in the early stages of Bolshevism and the Soviet regime…The great attraction of communism among Russian, and later also, Western, Jewry emerged only with the establishment of the Soviet regime in Russia.
How involved were the Jews? It continues by admitting that the “anti-Semitic” counteroffensive of the White Russian armies in 1918 “drove the bulk of Russian Jewish youth into the ranks of the Bolshevik regime.” The bulk of Jewish youth. This means that the majority of all young Soviet Jews were communists. Jews, it says, found great opportunity within Bolshevism, “occupying many responsible positions in all branches of the party and state machinery at the central and local seats of power.” (pg. 791)
Bolshevism had become the Jewish cause as:
Many Jews the world over therefore regarded the Soviet concept of the solution to the “Jewish question” as an intrinsically positive approach…Communism and support of the Soviet Union thus seemed to many Jews to be the only alternative, and Communist trends became widespread in virtually all Jewish communities. In some countries Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist parties and in some cases were even instructed by the Communist international to change their Jewish-sounding names and pose as non-Jews, in order not to confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy… (pg. 792)
Communism – A Jewish Heritage
The article then goes on to enumerate who many of these Jews (most with Gentile Russian names) actually were. Here we find most of the giants of Soviet communism, names we have memorized in college history courses as the kingpins of the Revolution, without dreaming they were Jews. But making sure of their Jewish identity is very important to the editors of the Encyclopedia Judaica, which is not addressed to Gentiles. It is clear that the editors want Jewish youth today to be aware of their communist heritage. To this end, they not only never criticize anything having to do with communism but always describe it as a sincere and timely experiment with the greatest social advantages to Jews in Russia. Many Jewish Bolsheviks, persons who helped make possible the bloodiest regime in the history of the world, are dignified with a separate article.
Keeping in mind that Jews represented only several percent of the Russian population at that time, the disproportion of Jews in the Party hierarchy is further born out:
During the Revolution Jews played a prominent part in the party organs. The politburo elected on Oct. 23, 1917 had four Jews among its seven members. The Military Revolutionary Committee, appointed to prepare the coup, was headed by Trotsky and had two Jews among its five members. In the early years of the Soviet regime, Jews were in many leading positions in the government and party machinery… (page 797, 98)
Thus, 57 percent of the Politburo at the height of the Revolution was Jewish, as well as 40 percent of the Military Revolutionary Committee. In my video The Other Israel I show a photo of the First Peoples' Commissariat. Its five members are all Jewish. (See, The Other Israel video on Google)
Anti-Communism. . . or Anti-Semitism?
Having informed us earlier that because of “anti-Semitism” the “bulk of Jewish youth” were compelled to join the Bolshevik ranks, the Judaica goes on to inadvertently clarify why the Russian natives were so bent on “anti-Semitic” activities. The article says that movements toward freedom (called “centrifugal nationalist tendencies”) among the nearly enslaved Russian people “inspired the regime to utilize compact, Jewish masses in these areas as a counterweight, which would swing the balance in the centralist regime’s favor.”(pg. 798)
In other words, “the bulk of Jewish youth” in every outlying hamlet of Russia became the “compact Jewish masses” whose task it was to forcibly impose and maintain communist slavery upon freedom-loving peoples. Jews and the Russian populace were locked in a death struggle for survival and the future of Russia. Is it any wonder that the White Russians rose up in rage, even to the point of liquidating their oppressors? Who would not have done the same?
It was at this time that Lenin himself declared capital punishment for any Russian who criticized Jews or identified Jewish leaders with Russian names as Jewish.
Anti-Semitism was branded as being counterrevolutionary in nature, and persons participating in pogroms or instigating them were outlawed (by a special decree issued by the Council of Commissars in July 1918, signed and personally amended by Lenin to sharpen its tone). A statement against Anti-Semitism made by Lenin in March 1918 was put on a phonograph record, to be used in a mass campaign against the counterrevolutionary incitement against the Jews. (pg. 798)
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Cont.:
Allied Intelligence Reports
During this period intelligence services throughout the free world were buzzing with reports of Jewish involvement in communism. Since an impeccable Jewish source, the Encyclopedia Judaica, has largely convinced us of the importance of Jews to the success of communism, let us briefly consider a small part of the testimony available from a variety of high-level sources. I will present each without comment, but notice how often they describe Bolshevik leadership in much higher figures than the Encyclopedia Judaica, often to as high as 90 percent.
Report of the American Expeditionary forces to Siberia, March 1, 1919. Captain Montgomery Schyler, speaking of events following the decline of the First Provisional Government, says:
These hopes were frustrated by the gradual gains in power of the more irresponsible and socialistic elements of the population, guided by the Jews and other anti-Russian races. A table made in April 1918 by Robert Wilton, the correspondent of the London Times in Russia, shows that at that time there were 384 “commissars” including 2 Negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen, 22 Armenians and more than 300 Jews. Of the latter number, 264 had come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial government.
Captain Schyler then provides a personal reflection:
It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type, who have been in the United States and there absorbed every one of the worst phases of our civilization without having the least understanding of what we really mean by liberty. 3
The Consul General at Moscow (Summers) to the Secretary of State, Moscow, May 2, 1918:
Jews predominant in local Soviet government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population which tends to regard oncoming Germans as deliverers. 4
U.S. State Department Report, Foreign Relations, 1918, Russia, Vol. 11, p. 240:
Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type, many of whom are anarchists. 5
Scotland Yard Report to the America Secretary of State, July 23, 1919:
There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international movement controlled by Jews; communications are passing between the leaders in America, France, Russia and England, with a view toward concerted action. 6
Extract of Report from the Netherlands Minister at Petrograd on the 6th of September, 1918, forwarded by Sir M. Findlay, at Christiana, to Mr. Balfour:
I consider that the immediate suppression of Bolshevism is the greatest issue now before the world, not even excluding the war that is still raging, and unless, as above stated, Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world, as it is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things. 7
Mr. Aleston to Lord Curzon, forwarding Report from Consul at Ekaterinburg of February 6, 1919:
From examination of several labourers and peasant witnesses, I have evidence to the effect that the very smallest percentage of this district were pro-Bolshevik, majority of labourers sympathizing with summoning of Constituent Assembly. Witnesses further stated that Bolshevik leaders did not represent Russian working classes, most of them being Jews. 8
The Rev. B.S. Lombard to Lord Curzon, March 23, 1919:
I have been for ten years in Russia, and have been in Petrograd through the whole of the revolution. . . .I had ample opportunity of studying Bolshevik methods. It originated in German propaganda, and was, and is being, carried out by international Jews. . . .All business became paralyzed, shops were closed, Jews became possessors of most of the business houses, and horrible scenes of starvation became common in country districts. 9
Sir Winston Churchill, writing in the Illustrated Sunday Herald of February 8, 1920 agrees with the previous testimony.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders.
But to be fair, let the Jews have the last word - words written after millions of "goyim" had already been slaughtered in Russia. Quoting from the American Hebrew of September 8, 1920:
The Bolshevist revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction, and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental and physical forces, became a reality all over the world.”
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html
Allied Intelligence Reports
During this period intelligence services throughout the free world were buzzing with reports of Jewish involvement in communism. Since an impeccable Jewish source, the Encyclopedia Judaica, has largely convinced us of the importance of Jews to the success of communism, let us briefly consider a small part of the testimony available from a variety of high-level sources. I will present each without comment, but notice how often they describe Bolshevik leadership in much higher figures than the Encyclopedia Judaica, often to as high as 90 percent.
Report of the American Expeditionary forces to Siberia, March 1, 1919. Captain Montgomery Schyler, speaking of events following the decline of the First Provisional Government, says:
These hopes were frustrated by the gradual gains in power of the more irresponsible and socialistic elements of the population, guided by the Jews and other anti-Russian races. A table made in April 1918 by Robert Wilton, the correspondent of the London Times in Russia, shows that at that time there were 384 “commissars” including 2 Negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen, 22 Armenians and more than 300 Jews. Of the latter number, 264 had come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the Imperial government.
Captain Schyler then provides a personal reflection:
It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the United States, but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since its beginning guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest type, who have been in the United States and there absorbed every one of the worst phases of our civilization without having the least understanding of what we really mean by liberty. 3
The Consul General at Moscow (Summers) to the Secretary of State, Moscow, May 2, 1918:
Jews predominant in local Soviet government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population which tends to regard oncoming Germans as deliverers. 4
U.S. State Department Report, Foreign Relations, 1918, Russia, Vol. 11, p. 240:
Fifty percent of Soviet government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type, many of whom are anarchists. 5
Scotland Yard Report to the America Secretary of State, July 23, 1919:
There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international movement controlled by Jews; communications are passing between the leaders in America, France, Russia and England, with a view toward concerted action. 6
Extract of Report from the Netherlands Minister at Petrograd on the 6th of September, 1918, forwarded by Sir M. Findlay, at Christiana, to Mr. Balfour:
I consider that the immediate suppression of Bolshevism is the greatest issue now before the world, not even excluding the war that is still raging, and unless, as above stated, Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world, as it is organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of things. 7
Mr. Aleston to Lord Curzon, forwarding Report from Consul at Ekaterinburg of February 6, 1919:
From examination of several labourers and peasant witnesses, I have evidence to the effect that the very smallest percentage of this district were pro-Bolshevik, majority of labourers sympathizing with summoning of Constituent Assembly. Witnesses further stated that Bolshevik leaders did not represent Russian working classes, most of them being Jews. 8
The Rev. B.S. Lombard to Lord Curzon, March 23, 1919:
I have been for ten years in Russia, and have been in Petrograd through the whole of the revolution. . . .I had ample opportunity of studying Bolshevik methods. It originated in German propaganda, and was, and is being, carried out by international Jews. . . .All business became paralyzed, shops were closed, Jews became possessors of most of the business houses, and horrible scenes of starvation became common in country districts. 9
Sir Winston Churchill, writing in the Illustrated Sunday Herald of February 8, 1920 agrees with the previous testimony.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders.
But to be fair, let the Jews have the last word - words written after millions of "goyim" had already been slaughtered in Russia. Quoting from the American Hebrew of September 8, 1920:
The Bolshevist revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction, and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental and physical forces, became a reality all over the world.”
http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/jewishactivistscommunism.html
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Karl Marx MAY have been contemptible towards the Jews, but you're dead wrong about Marxism in this regard. This is an excerpt from a well written scholarly article by Mark Weber:
“As an expression of its radically anti-nationalist character, the fledgling Soviet government issued a decree a few months after taking power that made anti-Semitism a crime in Russia. The new Communist regime thus became the first in the world to severely punish all expressions of anti-Jewish sentiment.17 Soviet officials apparently regarded such measures as indispensable. Based on careful observation during a lengthy stay in Russia, American-Jewish scholar Frank Golder reported in 1925 that "because so many of the Soviet leaders are Jews anti-Semitism is gaining [in Russia], particularly in the army [and] among the old and new intelligentsia who are being crowded for positions by the sons of Israel."18”
The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early Soviet Regime
Assessing the Grim Legacy of Soviet Communism
by Mark Weber
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html
You've taken the quote out of context. Lenin made this remark in 1913 (before he was in power) referring to the Jewish Bund:
“...The Jewish Bund (Algemeyner Yidisher Arbeter Bund in Lite, Poylin und Russland - General Jewish workers union of Lithuania, Poland and Russia) , founded in October 1897 in Vilna by Alexander (Arkadi) Kremer was one Jewish adaptation to socialist ideology which sought, increasingly, to preserve Jewish culture and Jewish nationality in the context of socialism through speaking of Yiddish and perpetuation of Yiddish culture. The Bund was liquidated in the USSR soon after the revolution, but enjoyed a large following in Poland, where it set up schools and social services and ran in elections. The Bund was extremely anti-Zionist and advised Polish Jews against leaving Poland to go to Palestine in 1937-1939.”
http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Bund.htm
“...The Bolsheviks, led by Lenin, attacked the Bund as a Jewish nationalist faction. Lenin claimed that the Bund was developing independent uniquely Jewish political tendencies...Lenin's attacks on the Bund did not abate. In a pamphlet written in 1905, "To the Jews," Lenin noted the sins of the Bund...In 1913 Lenin wrote in Critical Remarks on the National Question: Whoever directly or indirectly puts forward the slogan of a Jewish "national culture" is (whatever his good intentions may be) an enemy of the proletariat, a supporter of the old and of the caste position of the Jews, an accomplice of the rabbis and the bourgeoisie.”
http://www.zionism-israel.com/his/The_Jewish_Bund.htm
This remark by the Marxist Lenin should rightly be considered as anti-Zionist, NOT anti-semitic. This is Jewish Marxism vs Jewish Zionism. It was in 1918, when he was in power, that Lenin decreed antisemitism to be punishable by death.
More Jewish sources on this topic:
Stalin's Jews, We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
Heheh, now THAT'S anti-semitic. Almost as bad as Paul in Phil 3:2.
If I perceived that it was being said in a hateful manner or context, yes, I agree. Honestly, I was NOT being hateful, only trying to make a point.
From “What You Can't Say” by Paul Graham:
“To launch a taboo, a group has to be poised halfway between weakness and power. A confident group doesn't need taboos to protect it. It's not considered improper to make disparaging remarks about Americans, or the English. And yet a group has to be powerful enough to enforce a taboo...I suspect the biggest source of moral taboos will turn out to be power struggles in which one side only barely has the upper hand. That's where you'll find a group powerful enough to enforce taboos, but weak enough to need them.”
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Wasn't blaming, just trying to set the record straight. I think many/most are ignorant of the early history of Marxism/communism and subsequently fail to realize that it's far from being dead today. Hate law legislation is deja vu to those who know of the roots/beginnings of Marxism.
I'm done.
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Some Questions
Your a pretty smart guy Larry. Where does all this learning come from?
BTW, whats the difference from Particular B, Primitive B & Old Baptist's. What are distinctive differences?
Thanks
Steve D
We can go Private on that!
Your a pretty smart guy Larry. Where does all this learning come from?
BTW, whats the difference from Particular B, Primitive B & Old Baptist's. What are distinctive differences?
Thanks
Steve D
We can go Private on that!
I know my son & he would have definitely gone OT on the bigot. you know, eye for tooth for tooth except it would have been here is a black eye & Im about to extract some teeth, free of charge.
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