Bill, let's rewrite your sentence:
OR:
So what was the point of your question?
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The degrading of a nation
- Thread starter freeatlast
- Start date
OR:
So what was the point of your question?
So then we can all assume that you go to your employer on a regular basis and tell him how immoral he is?
You say that you live near a military post. Very likely you see young guys on the weekends drinking and behaving badly. Guess what, it has always been that way with armies, or any large collection of young people away from home for the first time. Basically you know nothing about actually being in the military but it doesn't stop you pontificating about it.
Oh great, another statistical claim from FAL with no clue as to its veracity.
I'm not surprised.
Bill, you're making a classic mistake: do they hate homosexuals, or do they hate homosexuality?
I absolutely don't buy into "Love the sinner, hate the sin." The only people who are psychologically/spiritually able to do it are the one the Catholics call "saints," the practice most of you bad mouth. I don't think anyone who posts under "politics" or "news" is capable of loving the sinner and hating the sin.
I understand hating. I was a hater for most of my life.
I understand hating. I was a hater for most of my life.
Christos doulos
New Member
I don't either because that isn't biblical when pertaining to God. God is holy and can love and hate perfect without sinful intent. God is love, but God doesn't love all the time. God can love and hate the sinner-God can do both perfectly
We on the other hand cannot do this without sin therefore we must remember to "love the sinner and hate the sin" You claim that is not possible, but I can assure you it is very possible. If I know the full consequences of you living in such a way is eternal torment in hell, then which demonstrates my love for you? to say something or to say nothing?
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freeatlast
New Member
Bill perhaps it is because you are confusing the human emotion of love and Agape love and biblical hate. I agree that we hate not only the sin but the sinner as it is impossible to separate the two, and those who claim they do are deceiving themselves, but I think you have the incorrect understanding of what love and hate is from a biblical perspective. Jesus said this;
If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
The bible is clear that God hates sinners. It says He does (Psa. 11:5). The thing is that even in the mist of our hate for the sin and the sinner we can show the same love from our heart that God has for them and offer them the same forgiveness we have experienced and not because we are forced to but because we earnestly desire to see them saved. Years ago a man brutally murdered my mother. I have no problem calling for the biblical punishment for his crime and also earnestly offering him salvation and pray for him to receive such. I am convinced my mother will not be in heaven when I get their, but if the man that murdered her is I will hug his neck as he would be my brother and I hold no ill feelings towards him.. It is about having the same mind that Christ has. God hates sinners and God so loved the world. Both can be done if someone is a really born again.
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And now you are just a needler? :laugh:
If someone steals, is it hate to tell them stealing is wrong? By not telling them it's wrong, don't they grow to believe that the act is not harmful, and thus encouraging them to greater acts of stealing?
What you call "hate" is a despising of sinful acts that are harmful to the soul. It is love to warn people that these acts will be harmful to them in a long-term way. It would be hate, or at the very least uncaring, to not warn them, to not speak of the act in a way that shows we despise things that are harmful to us.
Would you rather we keep silent, and be uncaring?
freeatlast
New Member
Don I agree with you and even go beyond that. Sometimes it takes strong words and even strong action. Some people just do not understand gentle rebukes. When the Lord cleansed the temple if you look at the Greek he was not just upset. He was enraged and He was not joking or offering a threat by bluff. He meant business. Men who go to war do not tell the enemy to duck I am going to be shooting at you. God both hates and loves and we can also. It depends on when, where and how it is applied and why. It is one thing to have to shoot a man and another to purposely let him bleed out after he is down. The same with sin. It is one thing to take a strong stand against it and another to allow the sinner to do their deed and not let them know of the love of God for them if they will repent.
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So when the day comes (and it will come if you persist) that you receive your General Discharge (or less) for making your opinions known, will that open your eyes?
It doesn't matter what you or your commander or first shirt think. Would either one of them (CC or shirt) stand up in a formation and or make a speech at a dining-in stating their opinions about homosexuality? Would you?
Can't speak for Woody, only myself. The answer to your question is yes. If/when I have occasion to let my subordinates know what my standards, expectations, etc. are, I let them know that I don't brook anything that detracts from good order and discipline. That includes alcohol-related offenses, and yes, even sexual misconduct (whether homosexual or heterosexual). I don't single out anyone for any particular sin or conduct that are against the bible; but when such sin or conduct detracts from the performance of the mission, and/or affects others around them, because I've already identified my expectations and standards, I can then charge them with Articles 90 (in Woody's case, Article 91), 92 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. At the very least, at this point, I can issue them an Article 15; or subject them to court-martial if they refuse the non-judicial punishment.
In jobs where I don't directly have subordinates (otherwise known as "staff"), I have had a sign hanging over my desk that says "I am a Christian; you will hear me say things that reference Christ. If that offends you, then don't ask me to talk to you." I've never had anyone ask me to take it down. I hung this so that if someone had ever complained, I can always point to the fact that they had foreknowledge, and therefore can't claim "surprise" when I do reference the Bible or Jesus.
freeatlast
New Member
What hate?
See post #51, top of page 6. Provide an answer to that, and then we can talk about this question.
I must admit I was shocked by the tone of this thread. America is a great nation, but maybe the arrogance that is perceived by the wider world has been knocked about which is not a bad thing in itself.
America has become the world's policeman, and police are greeted with open arms when there is need for policemen but people HATE being obliged to them, or so it seems to me.
Warfare brutalises human beings....the winners get to write the histories. Monstrous things happen on all sides.
I think and this is my own humble opinion....the devil is having a ball at present, Western Civilisation is in decline (slowly but insidously). Islam is on the rise and the decadence of the West in its complacency is assisting the Islamisation of the West. With the economic problems, this will ultimately lead to war on a great scale as war is ALWAYS an economic stimulous.
God has been mocked by the modernists and it is downright UNCOOL to be Christian. Try praying in your workplace or on the way to work...Prayer is the answer if we have true faith and belief in God, maybe catastrophe will be averted.
America has become the world's policeman, and police are greeted with open arms when there is need for policemen but people HATE being obliged to them, or so it seems to me.
Warfare brutalises human beings....the winners get to write the histories. Monstrous things happen on all sides.
I think and this is my own humble opinion....the devil is having a ball at present, Western Civilisation is in decline (slowly but insidously). Islam is on the rise and the decadence of the West in its complacency is assisting the Islamisation of the West. With the economic problems, this will ultimately lead to war on a great scale as war is ALWAYS an economic stimulous.
God has been mocked by the modernists and it is downright UNCOOL to be Christian. Try praying in your workplace or on the way to work...Prayer is the answer if we have true faith and belief in God, maybe catastrophe will be averted.