If you do not gather statistics then you cannot report to your denomination any numbers. If one wants to look good then he will gather and inflate the numbers. I was in a church that I realized that the chief head counter added to make the church look good to the people. There was a time when I questioned the number and counted them myself.
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Reformed Altar Calls?
- Thread starter preacher4truth
- Start date
A good argument for Church Independence.
They can be just as good at lies in their exaggeration. It is not limited to denominations.
Yes we all have a sin nature dont we!
glfredrick
New Member
It is not "if" God is the only persuader, but rather "God is the only persuader."
Why should we preach to the lost and have altar calls?
Because our Persuader says that is how He persuades. We preach, we make apologetic arguments, we concince, and the Persuader convicts. He gives us a role in the process and yet we can persuade no one (Paul "wished" that he could persuade Agrippa). That is the role of the Holy Spirit.
It is as if we speak the words of God and the Holy Spirit speaks into the heart of the lost saying, "Hear this. This is truth." No man can convince another man that the things of God -- especially the supernatural things -- are in fact true apart from faith and it is God who grants the faith to belive.
For our reformed brothers and sisters.
We all know the issue about "choosing" Christ for salvation, and that this is frowned upon in the camp in a sense.
So, how do you accept those who have come to knowledge of Christ as Savior among those in your church?
Do you ask them if they have chosen Christ?
How do you "validate" their experience, what is your methodology?
I for one am not "for" putting them through a class, and then presenting them for baptism so much, as I see this can lend itself toward making mental assent to truth. There have been several who have gone through a "new members" class who have seemingly been led down a road to a desired end, and that is to present them for baptism. This cannot ensure true conversion by any means. I can't say that any less have slipped trhough the cracks with this methodology.
What do you do to help ensure these are "true" conversions?
What do you do if one says they want to choose Christ, or, that they have decided to trust Christ as Savior?
In my understanding, we explain that their conviction and drawing is Christ choosing them, and confirm their faith in Christ alone among other things.
How do you handle this?
Do some come forward and "choose" Christ and you just accept this, and make certain you don't let any "non-cal" know this?
We have "altar calls". But most of the folks I've baptized over the past two and half years here did not come forward in the invitation.
They have come to me before or after service and announced their faith in Christ or they call me during the week.
Then I baptize them in the next week or so.
We have a baptism this week, in fact, of a young man, 17 years old, who came to me before service Sunday night and asked to speak with me. After service he and I went into a room and he said, "I want to be saved." He confessed Christ as his Savior there in that room and we baptize him Sunday.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
Outstanding Testimony! Thanks for sharing God's faithful work!
convicted1
Guest
Well, I have been called a lot of things. Deformed would be mild compared to some. :laugh:
convicted1
Guest
I'd venture to guess he's more like a '79 Ford Pinto. :laugh:
convicted1
Guest
Ushering in the "hallelujah chorus". :godisgood::jesus::godisgood::jesus:
Enabled= Those who are the Elect of God, whom He effectually apllies unto them saving grace, in order to have them able to respond to the Gospel, God enables them to use the faith that he granted them to believe unto jesus and be saved!
that God uses the Gospel to save those whom He has elected is a lie?
So when Apostle peter said that ALl those who God had appointed to receive eternal life , heard the gospel, and confirmed their election by responding did not happen, or peter lied?
Tom Butler
New Member
I Corinthians 1:21
And here is why men and women respond---or don't:
This is why preachers preach, and exhort men and women to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus.
And here is why men and women respond---or don't:
You mean that we DONT still have our own free will to accept jesus?
The whole idea of preaching the Gospel to the congregation followed by an "altar" call is completely backwards from the Biblical paradigm. The Biblical example of evangelism(preaching the gospel) is to go into the world, where the lost are, & tell them the good news face to face. Too often, modern church is just an attempt to repeat the "Great Revivals" within the walls of a little building. Not only that, but the "Revivals" were colossal failures. Within one generation, the areas where the "revivals" occurred were as morally & spiritually destitute as before; only worse. The people had been inoculated against hearing the truth with coercive preaching and emotionalism. We should judge the "revivals" by the same method we use to determine whether or not an individual is regenerate....by a changed life that bears fruit.
How many churches have "revival" meetings throughout the year; bringing in "special speakers" to excite the people, but the nothing ever changes? Perhaps holding Biblical interpretation & discernment classes instead of "preaching the gospel" would bring about the change which so alludes them.
How many churches have "revival" meetings throughout the year; bringing in "special speakers" to excite the people, but the nothing ever changes? Perhaps holding Biblical interpretation & discernment classes instead of "preaching the gospel" would bring about the change which so alludes them.
That was one thing Billy Graham realized that without followup (discipleship) that would happen. Too often it was emotion without action. My wife and I were married in a church that seldom had an altar. I remember the first time I was visitor and did not leave the building without someone asking about my spiritual condition. Later I found out that every person at each door was a leader in the church and each one knew how to do evangelism.
glfredrick
New Member
Graham's revivals have demonstrated about a 2% "stick" after the fact. That number is probably less than it would have been had that many persons been involved in relationships with church people and invited to a local church for service.
Someone once ran the numbers and if we had a Graham-styled evangelistic event every day, around the world, with his numbers, at the end of 10 years there would be more people in the world that needed salvation than when the effort began (and indeed, we have seen just that, though Graham did not hold an event "every day").
On the other hand, if one person would win one other, then the two went out and each won one other, by the end of that same 10-year period, the evangelized would all be fighting over who got to share the gospel with the last remaining lost person (assuming that all could be convinced and would chose, as is the model of some).
Someone once ran the numbers and if we had a Graham-styled evangelistic event every day, around the world, with his numbers, at the end of 10 years there would be more people in the world that needed salvation than when the effort began (and indeed, we have seen just that, though Graham did not hold an event "every day").
On the other hand, if one person would win one other, then the two went out and each won one other, by the end of that same 10-year period, the evangelized would all be fighting over who got to share the gospel with the last remaining lost person (assuming that all could be convinced and would chose, as is the model of some).
Despite the low percentage I know there were some children from Mormon homes who heard him speak when I was involved in San Antonio. Involvement was good for the chruch I pastored. It helped people grow and have boldness.
Dawson Trotman gave a message on that in the early 50s. It amazes me how many have ignored that. The last numbers I saw showed that most denominations in America did not grow more percentage than the percentage of population growth. The vast majority were less.
How would someone that received the gift of evangelising others to the Lord actually function in a local Church setting?
ALL of us called by God to live as witnesses, but what is difference between us and one gifted by the Lord specifically as an evangelist?
Where did all this come from?
Ask Christ into your heart
Invite Christ into your life
Pray this little prayer after me
Could this be why the majority of church members are lost?
I thought you were convicted, repented and you couidn't keep him out THIS IS THE SUPERNATURAL
Ask Christ into your heart
Invite Christ into your life
Pray this little prayer after me
Could this be why the majority of church members are lost?
I thought you were convicted, repented and you couidn't keep him out THIS IS THE SUPERNATURAL