My testimony glorifies the Lord God Almighty!

[The Biblicist]

This was posted in a thread of mine elsewhere yesterday ...

I know how this sounds but gonna say it anyway.
I am an Expert on how the word baptism was used in the New Testament.

I researched this subject over 20 years ago (objectively - the only research that counts)
and was shocked to learn that Jesus never commanded a watery baptism for the church age.
I ended up convincing a Greek Scholar and a Pastor of one of the Largest churches in his State.
Both of whom, came out swinging at first to defend their programmed beliefs on this subject.
The view was: "If commanded by Jesus it must be important for us to do it"!

Indeed it would be if there was such a command since a command is by definition a "necessary prescription"!
Old School Catholics claim it's necessary, while Protestants compromise and say "It's a "should" not a must.
Both make no sense!
There isn't a drop of water mentioned in the Great Commission accounts (last chapters of Matt, Mark & Luke).
Matt. & Mark have been made to look like a watery command because of how the RCC manipulated the text by saying "baptism is baptism" and means in water. Your thread proves this is an error put out by ax grinders to take the Spirituality out of scripture and replace it with physical rituals which can never bring an inward change in a person.
Anyway back to the text. Peter's command in Acts 10 is of his opinion.
For years I couldn't figure out why Peter went against Jesus' Acts 1:5 …
"John truly baptized with WATER but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence".

Jewish baptism was in water (physical) but the baptism for the church was to be inward/spiritual according to Jesus.
Took me 2 years to realize that the same verse of Jesus that came back to mind time and again (acts 1:5) was also recalled to Peter's mind and stated in Acts 11:16. This recalling is no doubt a correction from the Holy Spirit.

Peter is not the first infallible Pope. For years people were taught by the RCC that he was so they didn't challenge his command for the gentiles to be water baptized, something they obviously didn't need since they had already been saved. Jews got water baptized for repentance which comes b4 salvation not after it.
What I also find shocking about Christianity is the fact that Scholar after Scholar points to 1 cor. 1 and basically says
"He Paul is shown to water baptize there so that is proof of the importance of watery baptism"!

How can anyone ignore "I thank God that I only baptized a FEW"?
and also ignore "Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the gospel"?
All they see is that Paul baptized in water? Wow!!!! Is it any wonder that there is so much confusion
on Christian Forums and in the World about Scripture, etc.?

In closing: You are right on, by pointing out how important spiritual baptism is in Acts 10 & 11.
The Jewish Converts in Jerusalem weren't convinced by Peter's watery command
(He purposely said nothing about it in Acts 11 when talking to them) Check it out!
There was no need to since he took correction from the Holy Spirit on which baptism was important.
The same one that convinced the Jewish Converts that these Gentiles were indeed no part of the Church age.

Notice that he researched this subject for 20 years objectively, i.e. with no biases. Praise the Lord.
But there is a very serious problem with this dude ...
he didn't also provide his salvation testimony, so everything he has testified to must be considered as bogus!
"Tis a shame! Oh, well ... let's move on and crucify the next dude who shows up who doesn't agree with us.
.

The baptism in Matthew 28:19 is the kind that one man administers to another man- READ IT! The administrator is "ye" and the subject is "them" - "Go ye...baptizing them...teaching them."

The very same subject that teaches "them" is the very same subject that baptizes "them."

 

[The Biblicist]

I am not changing my tune

When you deny the very words of Scripture as you do with Acts 1:4-5 which demands the baptism in the Spirit of the apostles had not yet occurred and would not occur until "not many days hence.

Whey you assert by your own words that clearly and explicitly states that filling is baptism in the Spirit when the filling of the Spirit has been going on since the earliest of times before Pentecost. There is no ground for discussion much less common sense and that is precisely why I asked if you are on prescribed drugs. Peter made sense but you don't.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
Do you know that people take the no works for salvation from what Paul says? They misunderstand Paul, to their destruction. In 2 Peter 3:16, Peter is speaking about how they misunderstand Paul about no works. Just read what Peter says right before that scripture. See 2 Peter 3:14, Peter says, “…make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.”
Peter tells us to be spotless and blameless; however, you keep speaking against that possibility, you even call to question others salvation if they say such things. You not only speak against being spotless and blameless, you talk against trying not to sin when we want Jesus to save us, you call that to be accursed!
You, DHK, have misunderstood Paul.

First, you are "cross-posting." That is against the rules. If you don't know what it means; it means that you have already posted this in another thread.

Second, your answer here has nothing to do with: the OP, the title of the thread, nor my answer to evangelist-7, so why did you even post it?

Third, your interpretation, as usual is wrong anyway. Verse 14 has nothing to do with verses 15 and 16 as you wrongly allege. In verse 15 Peter begins to refer to Paul's writings, and in verse 16 he describes how some wrest the Scriptures, which Paul's writings are, to their own destruction. The teaching given in verse 14 has nothing to do with this.

Fourth, I am not calling into question your salvation, so why are you responding to this post. It wasn't even addressed to you.

 

[Moriah]

First, you are "cross-posting." That is against the rules. If you don't know what it means; it means that you have already posted this in another thread.

You and Biblicist said the same thing in different threads, so why cannot I use my same answer in both threads!

 

[Moriah]

Second, your answer here has nothing to do with: the OP, the title of the thread, nor my answer to evangelist-7, so why did you even post it?

I quoted what you said, and then replied to that. Do not say something then, if it has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[Moriah]

Third, your interpretation, as usual is wrong anyway. Verse 14 has nothing to do with verses 15 and 16 as you wrongly allege. In verse 15 Peter begins to refer to Paul's writings, and in verse 16 he describes how some wrest the Scriptures, which Paul's writings are, to their own destruction. The teaching given in verse 14 has nothing to do with this.

Your interpretation, as usual is wrong. You think there is power in your words?
As for you saying that verse 14 and 15 have nothing to do with 16 is ridiculous, to put it nicely.

Fourth, I am not calling into question your salvation, so why are you responding to this post. It wasn't even addressed to you.

You call my salvation into question all the time, you also do that to others. You do not just know how to debate doctrine, you try to say who is and is not saved.

This is a public debate, and you do not know I do not have to wait until something is specifically addressed to me? Lol...do you want me to go through all the threads where you popped up and began commenting, when no one was talking to you?

 

[Moriah]

When you deny the very words of Scripture as you do with Acts 1:4-5 which demands the baptism in the Spirit of the apostles had not yet occurred and would not occur until "not many days hence.

Whey you assert by your own words that clearly and explicitly states that filling is baptism in the Spirit when the filling of the Spirit has been going on since the earliest of times before Pentecost. There is no ground for discussion much less common sense and that is precisely why I asked if you are on prescribed drugs. Peter made sense but you don't.

Why isn't DHK reprimanding you right now?

Are we not talking about this in the other thread?

I have no idea what you are rattling off about me denying the scripture in Acts 1:4-5.

 

[DHK]

Why isn't DHK reprimanding you right now?

Are we not talking about this in the other thread?

I have no idea what you are rattling off about me denying the scripture in Acts 1:4-5.

You both need to take this discussion back to the thread where it belongs.
This thread is about "testimony." See the title of the thread, and post accordingly.

 

[The Biblicist]

The OP is about a persons "TESTIMONY" that would glorify God but it seems that the author of this OP as well as some others (Moriah) have no salvation testimony to share because when asked they avoid the question.

Tell me, do you think you are obeying Peter's command when he said:

1 Pet. 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Several men have asked for the salvation testimony of these two men and yet they certainly are disobeying Peter's command.

Does Peter say be ready some times or "always"?

Does Peter say be ready always to give an answer to "some" men or to "every" man that askth you a reason?

Am I within the Bibllical guidelines of Peter when I ask the OP author and Moriah to give a "reason" of the hope that is in him?

 

[evangelist-7]

Concerning my testimony ...
wherein I decided to include my experience of being baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ Himself
(I'm not trying to brag about it, but I am reminding you of Who performs this baptism) ...

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone.

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the Holy Spirit baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc.

In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with:
Luke 24:49 ------ the promise … power
Acts 1:4-8 –----- the promise … power … baptism with Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-19 –-- power … received Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 2:1-4 –----- speaking in tongues … filled with Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues … received Holy Spirit … the gift
Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues … baptism with Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit … the gift

Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, not salvation.
Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.
(Some Christians actually think this power refers to man's power!)
.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are referring to a period of time between the Old and new Covenats, between the New Covenant being fully trestified to by Apsotolic signs and wonders, so all of that was during that time, but today we have now that ALL of us now saved have SAME measure of the Holy Spirit, as we are all indwelt now by him, but up to us to allow Him to infill us up!

The Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit NOT a seperate additional grace/act of God, but done at moment of salvation, as we were placed by Him into spiritually the Body of christ!

 

[Moriah]

Concerning my testimony ...
wherein I decided to include my experience of being baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ Himself
(I'm not trying to brag about it, but I am reminding you of Who performs this baptism) ...

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone.

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the Holy Spirit baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc.

In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with:
Luke 24:49 ------ the promise … power
Acts 1:4-8 –----- the promise … power … baptism with Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-19 –-- power … received Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 2:1-4 –----- speaking in tongues … filled with Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues … received Holy Spirit … the gift
Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues … baptism with Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit … the gift

Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, not salvation.
Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.
(Some Christians actually think this power refers to man's power!)
.

The promise and the gift are referring to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and that IS about salvation.

You use Acts 10:44-48 to say the Holy Spirit is UPON believers and not INSIDE, and therefore a different baptism; however, Acts 10:47 and other scriptures when speaking of the Holy Spirit says they ‘RECEIVED’ the Holy Spirit.

Are you claiming that to ‘receive’ the Holy Spirit is not to have the Holy Spirit INSIDE a person?

All true believers have the Holy Spirit living INSIDE them this is about salvation.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

Again, the scriptures you claim are about having the Spirit UPON them and not INSIDE them; those scriptures are always about RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, AND all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit being INSIDE a believer, those scriptures are also about RECEIVING the Holy Spirit.

You have not proved what you are trying to prove.

The laying of the foundation were special times, to say the least, and God testified to it with signs, wonders, and miracles. Speaking in tongues and prophecies have ceased. The foundation has been laid.

 

[DHK]

Concerning my testimony ...
wherein I decided to include my experience of being baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ Himself
(I'm not trying to brag about it, but I am reminding you of Who performs this baptism) ....

When did that happen in your life, and how?

 

[evangelist-7]

You are referring to a period of time between the Old and new Covenats, between the New Covenant being fully trestified to by Apsotolic signs and wonders, so all of that was during that time, but today we have now that ALL of us now saved have SAME measure of the Holy Spirit, as we are all indwelt now by him, but up to us to allow Him to infill us up! The Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit NOT a seperate additional grace/act of God, but done at moment of salvation, as we were placed by Him into spiritually the Body of christ!

Many hearty congratulations ... you have remained in good standing here.

As I have oft mentioned within the hallowed walls of this sanitorium ...
you're just going to have to take this up with the many many millions
of people around the world who have received this special anointing
(called by some a second blessing) who art not residing in sanitoriums.
And, praise God, you won't have to go far; there are some here in USA.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Speaking in tongues and prophecies have ceased.

Moriah dear, you're just a-gonna have to speak with my wife about this.
She has had both of these spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12) for more than 25 years.
Me, I apologize, but I have some different ones in dat list.
If you provide me with your phone number, I promise that she'll call you.

I have been getting more revelation lately on this troubling subject ...

IMO, in the VERY beginning ...
people "received" BOTH salvation (inside) and the HS baptism (upon) simultaneously.
[What makes you think that "receiving" has to only be inside?]
Peter was assuming that this was normative, and expected it would continue.
But, alas, he soon discovered that it was not going to be the pattern after all.
They began finding people being born again without also being baptized in the Spirit.
Then they started saying that people also needed to get this baptism.

P.S. I enjoyed reading your post ... you're communication skills are improving.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

When did that happen in your life, and how?

It happened in 1993, just after my first trip (with a large group) in 1992,
and just prior to God calling me to go alone in 1994.

I have described the experience in the OP ... in the first paragraph beginning with "USA".
.

 

[The Biblicist]

Concerning my testimony ...
wherein I decided to include my experience of being baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ Himself
(I'm not trying to brag about it, but I am reminding you of Who performs this baptism) ...

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Galatians 4:6, 2 Timothy 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone.

These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the Holy Spirit baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc.

In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with:
Luke 24:49 ------ the promise … power
Acts 1:4-8 –----- the promise … power … baptism with Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-19 –-- power … received Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 2:1-4 –----- speaking in tongues … filled with Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues … received Holy Spirit … the gift
Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues … baptism with Holy Spirit … laying on of hands
Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit … the gift

Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the baptism with the Holy Spirit, not salvation.
Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.
(Some Christians actually think this power refers to man's power!)
.

I also make a distinction between regeneration and the baptism in the Spirit. However, I make a distinction also between the baptism in the Spirit and the manifest power of the Holy Spirit in miracles, signs and wonders.

The baptism in the Spirit is the public accreditation of the house of God that results in the indwelling of the Spirit in the corporate body of water baptized churched believers as described in 1 Cor. 3:16 in contrast to 1 Cor. 6:19.

The "power" cannot be found in Acts 2-6 in any others but the apostles as "miracles signs and wonders" were "THE SIGNS" of the apostolic office - 2 Cor. 12:12

All others received these "miracles signs and wonders' through apostolic laying on of hands - Acts 6:5; 8:17-18; 19:6; Rom. 1:11.


No such miracles signs and wonders are listed in Romans 12. Paul noted that and wished to come to them so as to impart such spiritual gifts (Rom. 1:11).

The purpose of "THE SIGNS" of the apostles was to provide a permenant inspired written "WITNESS" or "TESTIMONY" to Jesus Christ and His teachings - the New Testament Scriptures.

The Scriptures were confirmed by "THESE SIGNS" (heb. 2:3-4) and when the apostoles died and the last living saints upon whom they laid hands died so did the BIBLICAL "miracles signs and wonders" cease.

What you have is the common ordinary ecstatic utterance found in all world religions, mormon apostles, etc.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah dear, you're just a-gonna have to speak with my wife about this.
She has had both of these spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12) for more than 25 years.
Me, I apologize, but I have some different ones in dat list.
If you provide me with your phone number, I promise that she'll call you.

Maybe your wife can become a member here and join the debate.
Someone believing they are speaking in tongues for however long is not proof it is the biblical speaking in tongues.
There was a time I thought I was speaking in tongues too, and interpreting what I said. The Holy Spirit revealed to me that I never studied speaking in tongues from God’s Word; I only accepted what man taught about it. I studied and the truth about it was revealed to me.
Speaking in tongues were for a sign to the Jews during the laying of the foundation; the sign has been given; and the foundation has been laid (Isaiah 28:11; 1Cor 14:21; Hebrews 2:1-4).
Tongue speakers spoke mysteries; the mystery is the gospel message, and it has been revealed (1 Cor 14:2; Eph 6:19).
I would love to talk more to you about speaking in tongues.

I have been getting more revelation lately on this troubling subject ...
IMO, in the VERY beginning ...
people "received" BOTH salvation (inside) and the HS baptism (upon) simultaneously.

It is the same.

[What makes you think that "receiving" has to only be inside?

The Bible says where the Holy Spirit lives inside the person.
The Bible also says to clothe ourselves with the Lord.
The Spirit is the Lord.

Peter was assuming that this was normative, and expected it would continue.
But, alas, he soon discovered that it was not going to be the pattern after all.
They began finding people being born again without also being baptized in the Spirit.
Then they started saying that people also needed to get this baptism.

Show scripture that says what you say about Peter. I always check on what others try to teach me.

P.S. I enjoyed reading your post ... you're communication skills are improving.

I am glad to hear you enjoyed reading my post. I always write the same. Maybe your comprehension skills are improving.

 

[Yeshua1]

Many hearty congratulations ... you have remained in good standing here.

As I have oft mentioned within the hallowed walls of this sanitorium ...
you're just going to have to take this up with the many many millions
of people around the world who have received this special anointing
(called by some a second blessing) who art not residing in sanitoriums.
And, praise God, you won't have to go far; there are some here in USA.
.

We have to go by the Bible first, not experiences first!

I once too had a "prayer language", was involved in tongues and prophetic utterances, but the Lord openned my eyes thru his Word and thru reading different writers to know that was not from the Lord, but was from my 'pentacostal environment", was conditioned to be acting that way!

have not spoke in tongues in years, nor any "utterances", NONE since becoming a bapist 7 years ago!

Would highly advise follow the same path, you and your wife!

 

[evangelist-7]

We have to go by the Bible first, not experiences first!
I once too had a "prayer language", was involved in tongues and prophetic utterances,
but the Lord openned my eyes thru his Word and thru reading different writers to know that was
not from the Lord, but was from my 'pentacostal environment", was conditioned to be acting that way!
have not spoke in tongues in years, nor any "utterances", NONE since becoming a bapist 7 years ago!
Would highly advise follow the same path, you and your wife!

Would you care to comment on how the world has been evangelized during the past few decades?

Of course, I'm talking about Jesus' and Paul's method of preaching the gospel with accompanying signs and wonders.
Paul called this preaching the full gospel ... the truth of the gospel being CONFIRMED by miracles, etc.

What happened all of a sudden ... that the gospel didn't need the signs and wonders?

Let's see now ... Jesus and Paul needed them, but today we don't need them!
Oh, yes, Jesus said we would do greater things than He did ... So is that your explanation?

Last but not least ... Would you care to comment on my testimony in the OP?

P.S. Blaming Satan, giving him credit, etc. for everything is a valid opinion.
But I can't even get any Muslims to do this ... How about you?
.