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If, by now, you do not know who and what the nation of Israel was, I feel sorry for you. Go and study the OT. Go and see how Israel originated with Abraham, and then with the 12 sons of Jacob, which became 12 tribes of Israel. Tell me which tribe you descended from.
Don't lie to me and tell me that you are an Israelite. You are not.
Then prove to me that you can "rightly divide the word of truth."
You keep quoting Jer.7:23 almost to the exclusion of the words of Jesus.
What do you think that tells those who read what you have been posting?
Jesus is God. You are trying to discount the Old Testament.Sorry. You have been quoting Jer.7:23 so much that very little other scripture has been referred to. In comparison to this one OT verse the NT has been disregarded. Besides that obedience to God does not bring salvation. Faith in Christ does.
You have dwelt so much on this one OT verse that you have neglected Christ. That is shameful.
God is omniscient and knows all things. Do you think that I have to prove myself to God to let him know that I love him. He knows whether I love him or not. "
You are simply wrong! Think about it for a moment. What is the opposite of Spiritual union with God? That's right, spiritual separation from God. There can be no spiritual life where there is no spiritual union.
Those under the OT Covenant were saved just as we are today, but being under that Old Covenant, god forgave the sin debts incurred, but DID NOT seal them with the Holy spirit as under the new, did NOT grant them new natures...
Sin debts were forgiven, bit NOT new creatures in christ, with all those spiritually blessings, as that could not happen untile messiah actually came/died/ascended!
If you define the baptism in the Spirit as spiritual union with God you are assiging all people prior to Pentecost to spiritual death.
No, as the spiritual union with God is thru faith in Christ, by basis of the atonement on the Cross...
when that occurs, God sends his Holy spirit to indwell us, grants new natures, and at THAT tim is baptise into body of chrsit!
God the father saves me by basis of the Son, and they send HS to complete His aspect of it!
You are also denying regeneration prior to Pentecost as regeneration is "quickening" or SPIRITUAL LIFE and there is no quickening apart from union with the Spirit of God.
OT believers were NOT regenerated/given new hearts thoguh from/by God, he had established a Corporate Election with nation of isreal, and he forbaded holding sins against them due to coming messiah, but they werre still not indwelt by HS, new natured as we are today!
You are also denying progressive sanctification prior to Pentecost because without the indwelling Spirit of God there is no progressive sanctification.
because there wasn't any until time of Christ, as those saved by grace weres till in the flesh, God had taken away the effects of their sins, but still in same 'state', in old natures...
Paul sums it up in Romans 8:9 "If ANY MAN have not the Spirit of God HE IS NONE OF HIS". He did not say "if any Post-Pentecost man" but "ANY MAN" and the context is referring to only two possible classes of human beings (1) those "in the flesh" versus (2) those "in the Spirit" There has never been nor shall ever be any third class of human beings.
Muslims claim the same the same thing. Are you close relatives to them?I am a descendant of Abraham
Again, not "rightly dividing the word of truth."He is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, see Romans 4:11.
But I can see, Moriah. I can see that you are not rightly dividing the word of truth.If you cannot see it then you cannot see.
Over and over again you kept repeating Jer.7:23 to the exclusion of anything that was written in the NT. What else is one to conclude?You said I disregard the words of Jesus in reply to my quoting only words of the New Testament. I hope that there are those with sight here and see exactly what you are doing.
In the verse you (Jer.7:23), Jehovah is speaking to Israel.Jesus is God. You are trying to discount the Old Testament.
What rule have I broken. Go to the rules and quote the rule that I have broken. Is showing that you are wrong in your interpretation of the Scriptures against the rules. If you think so, then you should be posting elsewhere, not here.Can you not even just obey the rules of the board?
First, that has nothing to do with salvation.God says those who love him are the ones who obey him. Those who do not obey do not love him.
Muslims claim the same the same thing. Are you close relatives to them?
Again, not "rightly dividing the word of truth."
Paul is speaking in a figure of speech. Look at the first part of the chapter.
Abraham was saved by faith and faith alone; not by works (Rom.4:3).
We are saved the same way. Salvation was the same in the OT as it is in the NT--not of works but by faith.
But I can see, Moriah. I can see that you are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
Over and over again you kept repeating Jer.7:23 to the exclusion of anything that was written in the NT. What else is one to conclude?
I do not do what you accuse me of doing. Jeremiah definitely has to do with salvation. Are you trying to get all to believe that God wants Israel to obey Him and no one else? Do you want all to believe that God tells Israel how to be saved and no one else? Do you want all to believe that God’s Word is null in the Old Testament?In the verse you (Jer.7:23), Jehovah is speaking to Israel.
It has nothing to do with salvation. It has nothing to do with the words of Jesus. You have taken it totally out of context and won't admit that you were wrong in doing so.
Neither were the Pharisees who crucified Jesus, and said to Jesus in John 8, "We have Abraham as our father." Does it really make a difference? Unsaved is unsaved, no matter which way you look at it. All unsaved are children of the devil.Muslims are not Christians.
No, there is a principle in the Bible that runs from Genesis through Revelation. It is that salvation is by faith and not by works. It is through Christ alone and his redemptive work on the cross and must be received as a gift by faith alone. That is the one theme that unites the entire Bible together. There is no flopping around on that.You keep flip flopping around.
Salvation is by faith, whether in the NT or OT.You put me down for quoting from the Old Testament, now you go back to saying salvation in the Old Testament is the same as the New Testament.
Salvation is not of works as you imply.I gave them this command: obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people, Jeremiah 7:23.
If you want God to be your God, if you want to be His, then you have to obey Him.
The Lord was directing His words to His chosen people, the nation of Israel, and thus they are not directed to us. You are taking Scripture out of context.I do not do what you accuse me of doing. Jeremiah definitely has to do with salvation. Are you trying to get all to believe that God wants Israel to obey Him and no one else? Do you want all to believe that God tells Israel how to be saved and no one else? Do you want all to believe that God’s Word is null in the Old Testament?
That verse is not quoted in the NT.You are in great error.
Jesus says in the New Testament what is said in the Old Testament in Jeremiah 7:23.
None of those verses have to do with salvation.God does not even know you unless you love God. You do not love God unless you obey God.
See 1 Corinthians 8:3, and John 14:21, 23.
But the man who loves God is known by God (1 Corinthians 8:30).
Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." (John 14:21.)
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14:23.)
God does not even know you unless you love God. God does not know you unless you love Him. You do not love God if you do not obey.
Neither were the Pharisees who crucified Jesus, and said to Jesus in John 8, "We have Abraham as our father." Does it really make a difference? Unsaved is unsaved, no matter which way you look at it. All unsaved are children of the devil.
No, there is a principle in the Bible that runs from Genesis through Revelation. It is that salvation is by faith and not by works. It is through Christ alone and his redemptive work on the cross and must be received as a gift by faith alone. That is the one theme that unites the entire Bible together. There is no flopping around on that.
Salvation is by faith, whether in the NT or OT.
Salvation is not of works as you imply.
The Lord was directing His words to His chosen people, the nation of Israel, and thus they are not directed to us. You are taking Scripture out of context.
That verse is not quoted in the NT.
You are teaching falseness when you say 1 Corinthians 8:3, John 14:21, and 23 do not have to do with salvation.None of those verses have to do with salvation.
Salvation is by faith, not of works.
It certainly does.Wow, what you said has nothing to do with what I said.
No, I am consistent and never flip-flopped at all. I have consistently said that whether in the NT or the OT salvation has always been "by faith."You did not even respond to the flip-flop remark, you are talking about something else now.
God gave the Law, especially "The Ten Commandments." Do you believe them?You keep calling stop sinning a work. Show scripture that says we do not have to stop sinning to be saved. Show me scripture that says not sinning is a work.
You quibble about words vainly. That statement simply shows that you don't know what faith is. Faith in Christ produces works. Works are a result of faith in Christ, but are not necessary to be saved.Faith without an action is dead.
Yes they are. They were not necessary to be saved. Faith was.The Jews had to do the works of the law, like circumcision, observance of special days, gift offerings, sin offerings, etc. Those are works!
Not sinning is not a work. Not committing adultery is not a work. If it is not a work then you are free to commit adultery because it is not a work. Be free with your immorality Moriah.Not sinning is not a work. Obeying Jesus’ teachings are not works. Jesus does not tell us to we must do those works to be saved, for those things are nailed to the cross.
Jeremiah 7:23 is not quoted in the NT. If you say that it is, you have lied.I gave you scripture where Jesus says in the New Testament what is said in Jeremiah. You are teaching falseness.
The truth that you deny is that works are not necessary for salvation.I gave you scripture from the New Testament that says what the Old Testament says in Jeremiah. You are denying the Truth.
Let's consider them.You are teaching falseness when you say 1 Corinthians 8:3, John 14:21, and 23 do not have to do with salvation.
Jeremiah 7:23 is not quoted in the NT. If you say that it is, you have lied.
The truth that you deny is that works are not necessary for salvation.
Let's consider them.
John 14:21,23, Jesus is teaching his disciples in the upper room before he goes to the cross. His teaching is on discipleship and it is directed only to the disciples. It has nothing to do with salvation.
1Cor.8:3 is in a passage where Paul is teaching the Corinthian believers about meat offered to idols. That has nothing to do with salvation. You have taken this verse way out of context. The concluding verse of this short chapter is this:
1 Corinthians 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
--What has that to do with salvation? Absolutely nothing!
Why do you continue to take Scripture out of context, and "wrongly" divide the word of truth??
Read my post. Read it slowly and understand it.It is easy to prove that you are wrong, it is not easy for you to admit it.
Jesus in John 14:15 tells us that those who obey him are the ones love him.
Jeremiahs 7:23 tells us God will be the God to those who obey Him.
John 14:21 Jesus tells us he will reveal himself to those who love him by obeying.
1 Corinthians 8:3 says the man who loves God is known by God.
How do you think those scriptures do not say the same thing?
Tell me, how did God save you if He does not know you?
Read my post. Read it slowly and understand it.
None of those scriptures address salvation; not one of them.
They are addressed to Christians/believers in Christ.
Why do you continue to take scripture out of context?
DHK,
Have you heard of this scripture, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest”?
Do you think Jesus was saying that to people who were tired of not sinning?
Do you think Jesus was saying people are burdened by not sinning?
It is so funny that you think and teach such a thing as obeying Jesus’ commands is a work, and a work that we are not supposed to do, or else we are not really saved. I want to laugh so hard at the dumbness of it.
Jesus said for those to come to him that are weary and burdened from doing the works of the law, like external ceremonial washings, gift offerings, sin offerings, observance of special day, etc.
Not sinning is not a work, no matter how badly you misunderstand Apostle Paul’s sometimes hard to understand teaching.
Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.DHK,
Would you mind telling us what you think of Jesus saying to come to him those who are weary and burdened?
How do you think that disproves what I say?It certainly does.
You made a point of saying "Abraham is my father."
The Jews in John 8 also said: "Abraham is our father."
Muslims also say: "Abraham is our father."
The Jews and the Muslims are obviously unsaved.
No, I am consistent and never flip-flopped at all. I have consistently said that whether in the NT or the OT salvation has always been "by faith."
In the law there are things to do, and things not to do, there are also works of the law for an earthly worship, all together, it is called The Law.God gave the Law, especially "The Ten Commandments." Do you believe them?
So it is a work for you not to cheat on your wife?Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Is committing adultery a sin?
Is not committing adultery a work. Yes it is. It is keeping the works of the law.
The law had to be kept. The Jews were under the law. I do hope you keep the law Moriah. Or do you feel free to commit adultery because this "work" is not a sin for you?? This is the scripture that you need.
That is not true. It does not matter thought does it?You quibble about words vainly.
How is God going to save you if He does not even know you?That statement simply shows that you don't know what faith is. Faith in Christ produces works. Works are a result of faith in Christ, but are not necessary to be saved.
Not sinning is not a work. Not committing adultery is not a work. If it is not a work then you are free to commit adultery because it is not a work. Be free with your immorality Moriah.
Jesus says the same things as He said in Jeremiah 7:23. Obey His commands.Jeremiah 7:23 is not quoted in the NT. If you say that it is, you have lied.
Are you lying and twisting things?The truth that you deny is that works are not necessary for salvation.
Let's consider them.
John 14:21,23, Jesus is teaching his disciples in the upper room before he goes to the cross. His teaching is on discipleship and it is directed only to the disciples. It has nothing to do with salvation.
All scripture has to do with salvation. We are to live on every word of the Lord. That is what the Lord says.1Cor.8:3 is in a passage where Paul is teaching the Corinthian believers about meat offered to idols. That has nothing to do with salvation. You have taken this verse way out of context. The concluding verse of this short chapter is this:
1 Corinthians 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
--What has that to do with salvation? Absolutely nothing!
Why do you continue to take Scripture out of context, and "wrongly" divide the word of truth??
Notice there is no works of the law. There are no external washings washings Jesus tells us to do, just to worship him? Notice Jesus does not ask for an animal without blemish, to be offered before you can come to him.Matthew 11:28-30 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is an invitation for all to come to Jesus and find rest.
Notice there are no works involved. Just come he says.
Thou shalt not commit adultery!Notice there is no works of the law. There are no external washings washings Jesus tells us to do, just to worship him? Notice Jesus does not ask for an animal without blemish, to be offered before you can come to him.
Sinning is never okay. Read what Jesus said , "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you." Did you see that? Jesus said stop sinning or something worse may happen to you. Show me scripture that says we do not have to stop sinning. Show me scripture that says not sinning is a work.
Only someone who loves their sins think it is a work to stop them.
Thou shalt not commit adultery!
Then you don't understand the law.Hey Rick,
Still working hard at not cheating on your wife, or are you resting from that lately?
Does that make sense to you DHK? Jesus giving you rest does not mean you get to commit adultery.
As I said before, not sinning is not a work.