Baptism in the Spirit

[Moriah]

Then you don't understand the law.

I understand the law.

The Israelites were under the law which included The Ten Commandments, which is also known as God's moral law, which also we are under.

The law is a list of sins not to do, and of good to do, and the penalties for breaking the law, it also had the works like circumcision, observance of special days, gift offerings, sin offerings, and various ceremonial washings just to worship God. Did you understand that? Just to worship God, one had to follow a written code of regulations just to worship God.
When Jesus was nailed to the cross, God nailed the written code with its regulations to the cross.
When the Jews worshiped God, they had to be ceremonially clean, there were a lot of things the Jews had to do. Men with their traditions also added things for the Jews to do, like hand washing before eating.
Jesus said, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Are you going to keep insisting not cheating on your wife is a work? Jesus said those who were weary from work, to come to him, and he would give them REST. The Jews could come to Jesus without being ceremonially clean, etc. Jesus’ yoke is easy, and his burden is light. That does not mean you do not have to stop being faithful to your wife. Jesus does not say he will give you rest from cheating on your wife, with your beliefs, resting from not cheating on your wife would mean to commit adultery.

We keep the law by not sinning.
We keep the law by not committing adultery.
We do good works by not sinning.

You think Jesus wants to give you rest from that?

It is called "self-righteosness."

Not sinning by not committing adultery is NOT self-righteousness!

Jesus said: "Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you can in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.
What was he referring to?
He was referring to the righteousness of Christ.
The righteousness of Christ was greater than the righteousness of the Pharisees who were "good" by not sinning--keeping the law.

So you think we do not have to stop sinning? So you want me to believe that there is a time to stop not sinning? And that time is when we come to Jesus.
Though Christ IS greater than the righteousness of the Pharisees, I do not see the scripture saying that in Matthew 5:20, as you say it does. The Pharisees and teachers of the law kept the law; however, Jesus tells us that if a person under the law says to their brother, ‘Raca’, they have to go before the Sanhedrin and give an answer to the counsel. However, Jesus says our righteousness has to surpass that, so if we say to our brother, ‘You fool!’ we would be in danger of the fire of hell.
Again, not sinning is something we ever have a rest from, as you are teaching.

 

[DHK]

Again, not sinning is something we ever have a rest from, as you are teaching.

We "never" have a rest from "not sinning."
We are always in a battle with sin, for we have a sin nature.
We are commanded to take on the whole armor of God and stand against the wiles of the devil.
We are commanded that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual to the pulling down of strongholds...even bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Jesus Christ.
The devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, whom resist (the Bible commands), being steadfast in the faith...

No, there is never any rest for the believer for as long as we are on this earth, and Satan is alive and well.

 

[The Biblicist]

but NOT the spiritual blessings of a personal relationship in same sense as we under new Covenant now experience!

Tell Jesus that because PRIOR to the cross, PRIOR to Pentecost Jesus rebuked a leading Jewish Theologion for being ignorant about the universal demand by God for new birth/regeneration - Jn. 3:3-10.

The Old Testament repeatedly spoke of the need of new birth but called it circumucision OF THE HEART.

They were forgiven by Gand new natures/infilling of the Holy spirit had to waitod externally, buts till same internally, as new hearts /infilling of the Spirit had to wait until coming of the messiah, and coming of the Holy spirit under new Covenant!

Ezekiel 26:26-27 describe the PRESENT STATE of salvation of INDIVIDUALS between Genesis and Matthew but predicted the FUTURE state of salvation of Israel AS A NATION.

Do you understand the process of progressive sanctification? Apart from a new inward nature and indwelling of the Spirit there can be no progressive sanctification as Paul demonstrates in Romans 7:14-25 for ANY FALLEN HUMAN BEING! It is said of Caleb that he followed the Lord "FULLY" because of the Spirit with Him -

Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

All those listed in Hebrews 11 walked by faith and faith is the fruit of the Spirit. The only thing those in Hebrews did not receive "without us" is a GLORIFIED STATE or being made "perfect."

Abraham is given as our example of not only justified by faith (Rom. 4) and a gospel believer (Gal. 3:6-8) but a believer created "in Christ" (Gal. 3:17) 430 years before Moses gave the law and 2000 years before Christ came.

The Holy Spirit not only regenerated and gave new hearts to Old Testament saints but indwelt them by the Holy Spirit and sealed them:


1. Joseph - Gen. 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

2. Joshua - Nub. 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;


3. Moses - Isa. 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

4. Daniel - Dan. 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,

Dan. 5:11 There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;

Dan. 5:14 - 14 I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee.

NOTE: Whenever a king attempted to attribute something falsely to Daniel, Daniel always corrected them and gave the glory to God. Daniel did not deny that the Spirit of God was in him.

Caleb was not a prophet and yet had the Spirit with him so that the followed "FULLY" after the Lord ALL HIS DAYS.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 was promised for Israel as a nation in the future but it was the present reality of every individual child of God from Genesis to Revelation because all the elect in all ages were "chosen in him before the foundation of the world" and they were chose "to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (Eph. 1:4; 2 Thes. 2:13).

Just as there is no possible salvation OUTSIDE OF CHRIST there is no salvation for anyone at any time that is SPIRITUALLY SEPARATED from The Spirit of God - Jn. 3:3-6; Rom. 8:8-9.

I challenge you and anyone on this forum to compare their spiritual life to that of David as recorded in the Psalms. Where do you go for comfort and identification with your spiritual warefare? The Psalms? Read his words about his inward struggles and inward faith and inward relationship with God and I dare you to say that you exceed his SPIRITUALITY!

Romans 8:9 is a universal rule that has no exceptions among fallen men at any time in recorded history from Genesis 3 to Revelation 21:1. There are only TWO POSSIBLE kinds of men

1. Saved or lost
2. Regenerated or unregenerated
3. Spiritually dead or spiritually alive
4. Children of God or children of Satan
5. In the flesh or In the Spirit
6. Justified or condemned
7. In the kingdom of God or in the kingdom of Satan
8. Redeemed or unredeemed
9. Spiritually united or spiritually separated
et.,

 

[The Biblicist]

Tell Jesus that because PRIOR to the cross, PRIOR to Pentecost Jesus rebuked a leading Jewish Theologion for being ignorant about the universal demand by God for new birth/regeneration - Jn. 3:3-10.

The Old Testament repeatedly spoke of the need of new birth but called it circumucision OF THE HEART.



Ezekiel 26:26-27 describe the PRESENT STATE of salvation of INDIVIDUALS between Genesis and Matthew but predicted the FUTURE state of salvation of Israel AS A NATION.

Do you understand the process of progressive sanctification? Apart from a new inward nature and indwelling of the Spirit there can be no progressive sanctification as Paul demonstrates in Romans 7:14-25 for ANY FALLEN HUMAN BEING! It is said of Caleb that he followed the Lord "FULLY" because of the Spirit with Him -

Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

All those listed in Hebrews 11 walked by faith and faith is the fruit of the Spirit. The only thing those in Hebrews did not receive "without us" is a GLORIFIED STATE or being made "perfect."

Abraham is given as our example of not only justified by faith (Rom. 4) and a gospel believer (Gal. 3:6-8) but a believer created "in Christ" (Gal. 3:17) 430 years before Moses gave the law and 2000 years before Christ came.

The Holy Spirit not only regenerated and gave new hearts to Old Testament saints but indwelt them by the Holy Spirit and sealed them:


1. Joseph - Gen. 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

2. Joshua - Nub. 27:18 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;


3. Moses - Isa. 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

4. Daniel - Dan. 4:8 But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,

Dan. 5:11 There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;

Dan. 5:14 - 14 I have even heard of thee, that the spirit of the gods is in thee, and that light and understanding and excellent wisdom is found in thee.

NOTE: Whenever a king attempted to attribute something falsely to Daniel, Daniel always corrected them and gave the glory to God. Daniel did not deny that the Spirit of God was in him.

Caleb was not a prophet and yet had the Spirit with him so that the followed "FULLY" after the Lord ALL HIS DAYS.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 was promised for Israel as a nation in the future but it was the present reality of every individual child of God from Genesis to Revelation because all the elect in all ages were "chosen in him before the foundation of the world" and they were chose "to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" (Eph. 1:4; 2 Thes. 2:13).

Just as there is no possible salvation OUTSIDE OF CHRIST there is no salvation for anyone at any time that is SPIRITUALLY SEPARATED from The Spirit of God - Jn. 3:3-6; Rom. 8:8-9.

I challenge you and anyone on this forum to compare their spiritual life to that of David as recorded in the Psalms. Where do you go for comfort and identification with your spiritual warefare? The Psalms? Read his words about his inward struggles and inward faith and inward relationship with God and I dare you to say that you exceed his SPIRITUALITY!

Romans 8:9 is a universal rule that has no exceptions among fallen men at any time in recorded history from Genesis 3 to Revelation 21:1. There are only TWO POSSIBLE kinds of men

1. Saved or lost
2. Regenerated or unregenerated
3. Spiritually dead or spiritually alive
4. Children of God or children of Satan
5. In the flesh or In the Spirit
6. Justified or condemned
7. In the kingdom of God or in the kingdom of Satan
8. Redeemed or unredeemed
9. Spiritually united or spiritually separated
et.,

I challenge everyone on this forum who claims to have been baptized in the Spirit to confirm their supposed baptism in the Spirit with the historical characteristics of the Pentecostal baptism in the scriptures:

1 ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

1. There was a "sound" they could hear with their PHYSICAL ears
2. There was a sight that "appeared" they could see with their PHYSICAL eyes
3. There was a completion immersion of their PHYSICAL Person.

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was there a "sound" you heard? - "sound of a mighty rushing wind"?

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was there a sight that "appeared" that others could visibly see? "as tongues of fire" upon your head?

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was the room or place in which it occurred completely "filled" so you were PHYSICALLY IMMERSED in its presence?

When the baptism in the Spirit occurred at the house of Cornelius, the NEAREST reference point Peter could compare it with was "AT the beginning" or on Pentecost - Acts 11:15-16.

1. This proves it was not a repetitous act with the over 8000 individuals that had been saved between Acts 2 and the house of Cornelius.

2. This prove it was historically unique and the house of cornelius was the only exception to the rule as it is never again spoken of in the book of Acts.

3. All scriptures prior to Pentecost point forward to Pentecost and all scriptures after Pentecost point back.

 

[Moriah]

We "never" have a rest from "not sinning."

You are the one who said stop sinning is a work, and that not sinning is something we are not supposed to do to be saved, or it would be being saved with belief and works! Which you say would make one accursed.
If stop sinning is a work as you say it is, then when we come to Jesus, we do not have to stop sinning!
That is nonsensical. We never get to sin.
Not sinning is not a work. We do not come to Jesus and get a rest from not sinning. The thing we do get a rest from is WANTING to sin, but you say here that not wanting to sin is something you always struggle with!
You do not sound like a changed person. You do not sound as if you changed in any way since being saved. You are supposed to be a new creation in Christ; however, I do not hear it in what you say, not at all.
Jesus says come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. With your teaching, we get to stop not sinning, if not, then we have just been saved by faith plus works and are not really saved.

We are always in a battle with sin, for we have a sin nature.

Again, if you are still in the same battles with the same sins, then you are not a changed person, then you are not a new creation, you are the same person you have always been.
How do you think a Christian is a new creation in Christ if he feels the same and does the same as always?
We are not changed just because we believe, for I have always believed, since a small child, but was not saved and made a new creation until I started to obey what Jesus said. Jesus saw my heart, he seen that I was never going to give up, when I called on the Lord, saved me. He gave me His Spirit, the eyes of my heart were opened, and I do not feel like I did before, not about sin.

We are commanded to take on the whole armor of God and stand against the wiles of the devil. We are commanded that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but spiritual to the pulling down of strongholds...even bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Jesus Christ. The devil walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, whom resist (the Bible commands), being steadfast in the faith...
No, there is never any rest for the believer for as long as we are on this earth, and Satan is alive and well.

If inside that armor, inside your heart, is the same desire for sin, and you struggle with that desire, and have never stopped, then that lion is roaming around still inside you.

 

[Moriah]

I challenge everyone on this forum who claims to have been baptized in the Spirit to confirm their supposed baptism in the Spirit with the historical characteristics of the Pentecostal baptism in the scriptures:
1 ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
1. There was a "sound" they could hear with their PHYSICAL ears
2. There was a sight that "appeared" they could see with their PHYSICAL eyes
3. There was a completion immersion of their PHYSICAL Person.

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was there a "sound" you heard? - "sound of a mighty rushing wind"?

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was there a sight that "appeared" that others could visibly see? "as tongues of fire" upon your head?

When the "baptism in the Spirit" occurred in your life was the room or place in which it occurred completely "filled" so you were PHYSICALLY IMMERSED in its presence?

When the baptism in the Spirit occurred at the house of Cornelius, the NEAREST reference point Peter could compare it with was "AT the beginning" or on Pentecost - Acts 11:15-16.

The time you are talking about in the Bible, when the Holy Spirit comes at Pentecost, that is God testifying to the gospel by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will, Hebrews 2:4.
The scriptures you quoted and ask us if that is baptism in the Holy Spirit and did we all have that exact things happen, that shows you do not understand, that that happening is one of the great signs during the laying of the foundation; and the foundation is laid!

It does not mean the apostles were not at that time baptized in the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that we, when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit that is supposed to happen to us in that exact way.
Speaking in tongues were a sign to the Jews; and the sign has been given.

1. This proves it was not a repetitous act with the over 8000 individuals that had been saved between Acts 2 and the house of Cornelius.
2. This prove it was historically unique and the house of cornelius was the only exception to the rule as it is never again spoken of in the book of Acts.

3. All scriptures prior to Pentecost point forward to Pentecost and all scriptures after Pentecost point back.

What is proven is that you do not have any understanding.

 

[DHK]

If inside that armor, inside your heart, is the same desire for sin, and you struggle with that desire, and have never stopped, then that lion is roaming around still inside you.

Don't twist the Scripture.
Take heed:

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter did not say that there is a lion IN you or me. He said
1 Peter 5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
--He walks about, not in. Why do you pervert the word of God?
People pervert the word of God to their own destruction.

You still maintain that there is no sin in you.
What does the Bible say about that:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You have admitted in this post that:
1. You deceive yourself.
2. The truth is not in you.
3. You have made Christ a liar.
4. His word is not in you.

You say you don't have battles with sin; thus you don't sin.
You have denied Christ.
What more do I have to do with you?

 

[The Biblicist]

The time you are talking about in the Bible, when the Holy Spirit comes at Pentecost, that is God testifying to the gospel by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will, Hebrews 2:4.
The scriptures you quoted and ask us if that is baptism in the Holy Spirit and did we all have that exact things happen, that shows you do not understand, that that happening is one of the great signs during the laying of the foundation; and the foundation is laid!

It does not mean the apostles were not at that time baptized in the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that we, when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit that is supposed to happen to us in that exact way.
Speaking in tongues were a sign to the Jews; and the sign has been given.


What is proven is that you do not have any understanding.

You talk about pure unadulerated ignorance and hot air! You have no clue what you are talking about! You certainly demonstrate you have no clue what the Scripture teach.

You expect the readers to believe that the ONLY DESCRIPTION of the baptism in the Spirit found in the New Testament is not the Biblical PATTERN for the baptism in the Spirit but something completely foreign to what the baptism in the Spirit is??????????

Acts 1:5 pinpoints it "not many days hence" and Acts 2:1-3 accurately describes what it was.

I never said a thing about "tongues" as tongues has nothing to do with the baptism in the Spirit.

You make up your doctrine as you go along while totally disregarding what God's Word actually says. You feel free to substitute YOUR THOUGHTS for God's Word and then expect the readers to embrace your nonsense???

 

[Moriah]

Don't twist the Scripture.
Take heed:

You need to take heed.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Do you know that people take the no works for salvation from what Paul says? They misunderstand Paul, to their destruction. In 2 Peter 3:16, Peter is speaking about how they misunderstand Paul about no works. Just read what Peter says right before that scripture. See 2 Peter 3:14, Peter says, “…make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.”
Peter tells us to be spotless and blameless; however, you keep speaking against that possibility, you even call to question others salvation if they say such things. You not only speak against being spotless and blameless, you talk against trying not to sin when we want Jesus to save us, you call that to be accursed!
You, DHK, have misunderstood Paul.

Peter did not say that there is a lion IN you or me. He said
1 Peter 5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
--He walks about, not in. Why do you pervert the word of God?
People pervert the word of God to their own destruction.

If you still have the same old struggles with the same old sins, then how is that armor helping you? When you are still defeated by that lion the devil.
You do not understand the Word of God, how could I think you would understand what I am saying.

People pervert the word of God to their own destruction.
What does the Bible say about that:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

You have admitted in this post that:
1. You deceive yourself.
2. The truth is not in you.
3. You have made Christ a liar.
4. His word is not in you.

You say you don't have battles with sin; thus you don't sin.
You have denied Christ.
What more do I have to do with you?

You do not understand how the kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount of flour until it worked all through the dough."
I work out my salvation. I do not keep the same desires for sin, as you say we do, and that it is normal. You even say it is a sin to say what I say, and I only say what the Bible says. You say it means I am not saved.
I say you are doing the work of the devil, for I have not heard such accusing from anyone as from you and Biblicist.
The Bible says Satan is the accuser of the brethren. You are working real hard at accusing me of not being saved.

 

[The Biblicist]

\It does not mean the apostles were not at that time baptized in the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that we, when we are baptized with the Holy Spirit that is supposed to happen to us in that exact way.

Here Moriah sets forth TWO different kinds of baptism in the Spirit. First he admits that the apostles were baptized in the Spirit in Acts 2:1-3 but then denies that the manner in which they were baptized in the Spirit is the way their followers were baptized in the Spirit - thus TWO DIFFERENT KINDS of baptism in the Spirit.

Moriah asserts that being "filled" with the Holy Spirit is the same as being "baptized in the Spirit":

"Being filled with the Holy Spirit is being baptized in the Holy Spirit" - Moriah

Hence, John the Baptist who was "filled" with the Spirit from his mother's womb was lying when he said 31 years later that the baptism in the Spirit was yet future - Mk. 1:8 "shall"

Hence, Christ was lying when he confirmed the baptism in the Spirit predicted by John the Baptist was yet still future when he was 33 and half years old "not many days hence" - Acts 1:5

Because not only was John the Baptist "filled" with the Spirit 34 years prior to Pentecost but so were many Old Testament saints.

This is chaotic mind of Moriah! He has no clue about the Biblical teaching of the Baptism in the Spirit. Let him go to the gas station and ask the gas attendant to "baptize" his car and then come back and tell us there is no difference between the "baptism" in the Spirit and being "filled" with the Spirit.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Moriah]

You talk about pure unadulerated ignorance and hot air! You have no clue what you are talking about! You certainly demonstrate you have no clue what the Scripture teach.

You are the one who is guilty of all that.

You expect the readers to believe that the ONLY DESCRIPTION of the baptism in the Spirit found in the New Testament is not the Biblical PATTERN for the baptism in the Spirit but something completely foreign to what the baptism in the Spirit is??????????

God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will, Hebrews 2:4.

The Holy Spirit is a gift, and there are gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 1:5 pinpoints it "not many days hence" and Acts 2:1-3 accurately describes what it was.

Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them, but would soon be IN them. See John 14:17. The Holy Spirit did not live in all believers until they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

I never said a thing about "tongues" as tongues has nothing to do with the baptism in the Spirit.

What do you mean you never said a thing about tongues? You quoted scripture about tongues when you tried to make your false case!

 

[The Biblicist]

God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will, Hebrews 2:4.

The Holy Spirit is a gift, and there are gifts of the Holy Spirit.

There are different WORKS by the Holy Spirit which are not the same. The work of regeneration is not the same work as being "filled."

There are different gifts that are not the same.

The baptism in the Spirit is not the work of the Spirit but the work of Jesus Christ "HE shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit."

The baptism in the Spirit is not being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was "filled" with the Spirit from his mother's womb but NEVER baptized in the Spirit as he predicted the baptism was a work of Christ that was yet FUTURE - "he SHALL" baptize you.


Here is your problem. You have no clue about the baptism in the Spirit but because your false doctrine of salvation depend upon your false doctrine of the baptism in the Spirit you will defend such a nonsensical, unbiblical idea that being filled by the Holy Spirit (which is His work) and being baptized in the Spirit (which is Christ's work) are one and the same. That is pure foolishness so apparent that one has to intentionally shut their eyes to the Biblical record and facts and willfully choose to believe complete nonsense.

Old Testament saints were "filled" by the Spirit but the baptism in the Spirit predicted by John and Christ never occurred until Pentecost.

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Ex 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

Lu 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

Lu 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lu 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

All of the above reference were BEFORE THE CROSS and BEFORE PENTECOST. However, the scriptures mean nothing to you and your false doctrines. You will pervert and twist them to suit your own belly (desires).






Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them, but would soon be IN them. See John 14:17. The Holy Spirit did not live in all believers until they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean you never said a thing about tongues? You quoted scripture about tongues when you tried to make your false case![/QUOTE]

 

[Yeshua1]

Again, the promise of the law being written upon their hearts was NOT to be fulfilled until time of the messiah coming!

people were saved by God under old Covenant, but the Holy Spirit ONLY came upon certail peoples, such as kings for their annoiting from the Lord, prophets, priests, workers in temple etc

He did NOT dwell and infill all peoples, could Not until he came in that fashion after death/ascension of yeshua, when He came at p[entacost!

God forgave/forbade their sins, based upon the coming messiag, but he did NOT individual seal and infill all persons, but had corporate election with national isreal under old Covenant...

Under the administartion of the new, we receive spiritual blessings they NEVER had on an individual basis, just in SPECIAL occasions, such as king/prophets/priests!

I hold to progressive being tranformed more into image of Christ after being justified, but the OT believers were in their natural flesh striving to keep the law, sinful flesh and weak, that is why we MUST have the opower that the new covenant provides us now saved by yeshua!

 

[The Biblicist]

Again, the promise of the law being written upon their hearts was NOT to be fulfilled until time of the messiah coming!

people were saved by God under old Covenant, but the Holy Spirit ONLY came upon certail peoples, such as kings for their annoiting from the Lord, prophets, priests, workers in temple etc

He did NOT dwell and infill all peoples, could Not until he came in that fashion after death/ascension of yeshua, when He came at p[entacost!

God forgave/forbade their sins, based upon the coming messiag, but he did NOT individual seal and infill all persons, but had corporate election with national isreal under old Covenant...

Under the administartion of the new, we receive spiritual blessings they NEVER had on an individual basis, just in SPECIAL occasions, such as king/prophets/priests!

I hold to progressive being tranformed more into image of Christ after being justified, but the OT believers were in their natural flesh striving to keep the law, sinful flesh and weak, that is why we MUST have the opower that the new covenant provides us now saved by yeshua!

You are wrong. You cannot response to the scriptural evidence I have provided with any kind of exegetical response to demonstrate I am wrong so you simply repeat YOUR OPINIONS!

If you are right then Jesus is not only a liar but a false accuser. He told Nicodemus LONG BEFORE the cross and Pentecost that men must be born again by the Spirit of God or they could not see or enter the kingdom of God AND rebuked him as a leading theologion of not knowing the Scriptures better - Jn. 3:3-10.

The new birth is one and the same with quickening or spiritual life, with regeneration or restoring the image of God within man. It is one and the same as having the law of God written in the heart so that you have a DESIRE to please God - Ezek. 36:26-27; 2 Cor. 3:3-6.

It is plainly taught in the Old Testament under the figure of circumcison of the heart:

De 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

What is it to be "stiffnecked" and how does circumcision of the heart rectify that problem? Think! Stiffnecked is the resistance described by Paul in Romans 8:7. Circumcison of the heart is God providing a NEW NATURE that is compliant and obedient to His commandments - law written in the heart.

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Without heart circumcision there is no eternal life as it is the same as quickening - regeneration - spiritual life - union with God.


Jer 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

The uncircumcised heart is a rebellious NATURE that produces "evil...doings" just as Romans 8:7 teaches.

The universal rule of Romans 8:8-9 is from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Moriah]

Again, the promise of the law being written upon their hearts was NOT to be fulfilled until time of the messiah coming!

people were saved by God under old Covenant, but the Holy Spirit ONLY came upon certail peoples, such as kings for their annoiting from the Lord, prophets, priests, workers in temple etc

He did NOT dwell and infill all peoples, could Not until he came in that fashion after death/ascension of yeshua, when He came at p[entacost!

God forgave/forbade their sins, based upon the coming messiag, but he did NOT individual seal and infill all persons, but had corporate election with national isreal under old Covenant...

Under the administartion of the new, we receive spiritual blessings they NEVER had on an individual basis, just in SPECIAL occasions, such as king/prophets/priests!

I hold to progressive being tranformed more into image of Christ after being justified, but the OT believers were in their natural flesh striving to keep the law, sinful flesh and weak, that is why we MUST have the opower that the new covenant provides us now saved by yeshua!

This is correct what you say here.
You explained it very good.

 

[Moriah]

What is it to be "stiffnecked" and how does circumcision of the heart rectify that problem? Think! Stiffnecked is the resistance described by Paul in Romans 8:7.

Not everyone is stiff necked!

 

[Moriah]

There are different WORKS by the Holy Spirit which are not the same. The work of regeneration is not the same work as being "filled."

There are different gifts that are not the same.

The baptism in the Spirit is not the work of the Spirit but the work of Jesus Christ "HE shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit."

The baptism in the Spirit is not being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist was "filled" with the Spirit from his mother's womb but NEVER baptized in the Spirit as he predicted the baptism was a work of Christ that was yet FUTURE - "he SHALL" baptize you.


Here is your problem. You have no clue about the baptism in the Spirit but because your false doctrine of salvation depend upon your false doctrine of the baptism in the Spirit you will defend such a nonsensical, unbiblical idea that being filled by the Holy Spirit (which is His work) and being baptized in the Spirit (which is Christ's work) are one and the same. That is pure foolishness so apparent that one has to intentionally shut their eyes to the Biblical record and facts and willfully choose to believe complete nonsense.

Old Testament saints were "filled" by the Spirit but the baptism in the Spirit predicted by John and Christ never occurred until Pentecost.

Ex 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Ex 35:31 And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

Lu 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

Lu 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lu 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

All of the above reference were BEFORE THE CROSS and BEFORE PENTECOST. However, the scriptures mean nothing to you and your false doctrines. You will pervert and twist them to suit your own belly (desires).

Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them, but would soon be IN them. See John 14:17.

The Holy Spirit did not live in all believers until they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

To be filled with the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, is only a happening to those who are being baptized or who have already been baptized.

In John 14:17, Jesus tells the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them but would soon be IN them.

Then in Acts 1:4-5, they were filled with the Holy Spirit to do God's work with power.

On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

However, that does not nullify the fact that people were also baptized with the Holy Spirit for the first time, just because they also spoke in tongues. In fact, the speaking in tongues gave evidence and the sign to the Jews that even Gentiles received the Holy Spirit of God. That God's Spirit now lived in them.

Being giving the Holy Spirit is an individual matter.

Jesus says he will make his home with those who obey him.

That is not only for the Apostles, and not only for those who were filled with the Holy Spirit and enabled to do miraculous things, like speak in tongues and heal others.

 

[The Biblicist]

Not everyone is stiff necked!

You are! So is every human born into this world.

 

[The Biblicist]

Jesus told the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them, but would soon be IN them. See John 14:17.

The Holy Spirit did not live in all believers until they are baptized in the Holy Spirit.

False! He was talking to water baptized believers that John prepared ("I baptize YOU with water...he shall baptize YOU") a PLURAL number that would be formed into His congregational body at Jerusalem. This has no application to unqualified INDIVIDUAL believers.

NOT ALL BELEIVERS were baptized in the Spirit on Pentecost but ONLY those that were formed and assembling on Pentecost.

T

o be filled with the Holy Spirit in the New Testament, is only a happening to those who are being baptized or who have already been baptized.

False! I showed two cases in Numbers where they were filled with Spirit without any reference to speaking or prophesying. I showed that John the Baptist was filled in the womb - no speaking on his part. I showed that Elizabeth and Mary were filled with the Spirit. All before pentecost and all before Christ baptized anyone with the Holy Sprit.

In John 14:17, Jesus tells the apostles the Holy Spirit was WITH them but would soon be IN them.

Jesus is speaking directly to the members of his congregation - water baptized believers formed into one body by Christ. They met as a body in Acts 1:15-26 prior to Pentecost. This is a PLURAL "you" that Had the Holy Spirit in them as indivduals but only Christ WITH them as a church body whereas the other comforter would not dwell "WITH" them as Christ did but "IN" them as a "temple".

Do you know the difference between the singular temple and plural "you" of 1 Corintians 3;16 versus the singular temple and singular "you" of 1 Cor. 6:19? I think not!

Then in Acts 1:4-5, they were filled with the Holy Spirit to do God's work with power.

Do you have a problem reading? You better reread that text. There was no filling or power given to them in Acts 1:4-5 as you claim. He simply promised the baptism in the Spirit "not many days hence" on Pentecost. The baptism in the Spirit and filling of the Spirit are not one and the same. Go try that at the gas station and tell the attendent to baptize your car with gas!:tongue3:

There is no point discussing this matter with you as your are totally and wholly incapable of simple discernment of English much less Biblical discernment of doctrine.

 

[Moriah]

You are! So is every human born into this world.

No way, not every human born into this world resists the Holy Spirit.