Florida Passes Plan For Racially-Based Academic Goals

[Bro. Curtis]

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/10/12/florida-passes-plan-for-racially-based-academic-goals/

...
“Our kids, although they come from different socioeconomic backgrounds, they still have the ability to learn,” Lopez said. “To dumb down the expectations for one group, that seems a little unfair.”
Others in the community agreed with Lopez’s assessment. But the Florida Department of Education said the goals recognize that not every group is starting from the same point and are meant to be ambitious but realistic.
As an example, the percentage of white students scoring at or above grade level (as measured by whether they scored a 3 or higher on the reading FCAT) was 69 percent in 2011-2012, according to the state. For black students, it was 38 percent, and for Hispanics, it was 53 percent.
In addition, State Board of Education Chairwoman Kathleen Shanahan said that setting goals for different subgroups was needed to comply with terms of a waiver that Florida and 32 other states have from some provisions of the federal No Child Left Behind Act. These waivers were used to make the states independent from some federal regulations.
“We have set a very high goal for all students to reach in Florida,” Shanahan said.
But Palm Beach County School Board vice-chairwoman Debra Robinson isn’t buying the rationale.
“I’m somewhere between complete and utter disgust and anger and disappointment with humanity,” Robinson told the Post. She said she has been receiving complaints from upset black and Hispanic parents since the state board took its action this week....


Wow. Hopefully this will be ACLU'ed.

 

[billwald]

"Racially" is over worked

It is a problem of defective social contract, not skin color or one's grandmother's native language.

Evidence? I don't think that our white trash aka poverty class population scores better than the class of people who self-identify as "black."

 

[mont974x4]

Bill, I think you're onto something here. It's simply a numbers game. Let's look at crime for our example.
A neighbor with a high population of blacks will have more blacks committing the crime. A neighborhood that is 90% white and 5% black and 5% hispanic will have more criminals that are white. In my neck of the woods it would be people from a native heritage. It isn't race. It is a matter of statistical probability. It doesn't mean we change the laws to make it easier for the majority population group in a given area to not commit crime.

 

[Oldtimer]

It is a problem of defective social contract, not skin color or one's grandmother's native language.

Evidence? I don't think that our white trash aka poverty class population scores better than the class of people who self-identify as "black."

Careful, Bill, where you walk. You just might step into a hole and break your leg.

There's a big difference between poor people and "trash" regardless of the color of their skin.

I grew up dirt poor on a small farm in NC. aka "poverty class" that you designate as "white trash". No, my second hand clothes didn't have designer labels. But, my parents taugh us the 10 commandments and lived by them, themselves. Sometimes I only had a dime to put in the collection plate at church on Sunday morning. But my father made sure each of us children had that dime or nickle -- from the sweat of his brow.

This "white trash" kid was reading at 12 grade + according to 5th grade end of year testing. (My Mom kept our report cards. Found mine after she passed) This "white trash" kid went on to college, and it wasn't a free ride either.

"defective social contract" ?? Exactly what do you mean by that? Where is that in the scriptures?

Yes, I know we are to help widows and orphans, when they actually need help. And, Yes, I know too if a sluggard is to lazy to work, he doesn't eat according to the scriptures, too. Somewhere along the line personal responsibility and accountability come into play. Even for us "trash" aka poverty class population, regardless of our origins. Wonder why Abe Lincoln didn't use "defective social contract" as an excuse? Come to think of it, I now wonder why my father didn't use that as an excuse, instead of giving us dimes for the offering plate? Or, why my mother felt the need to make sure school homework was done everynight?

 

[LadyEagle]

"Trash" is a lifestyle and life choices and has nothing to do with economics, but everything to do with character.

 

[mont974x4]

"Trash" is a lifestyle and life choices and has nothing to do with economics, but everything to do with character.

true. true.

 

[billwald]

>I grew up dirt poor on a small farm in NC. aka "poverty class"

Do you still consider yourself as "poverty class?" I doubt it. I hope not.

It was a different economic world 70 years ago. One big factor, before TV got cheap no one knew what was going on in the rest of the country. There is no economic reason why anyone who calls himself "oldtimer" and grew up in the US to be poor.

Whatever the reason, some people choose to be cash poor. I respect that as long as they are not living on the dole or begging. I knew a middle aged "bag lady" who slept under the freeway but held a full time job. It drove her crazy to sleep inside a building.

 

[Oldtimer]

>I grew up dirt poor on a small farm in NC. aka "poverty class"

Do you still consider yourself as "poverty class?" I doubt it. I hope not.

It was a different economic world 70 years ago. One big factor, before TV got cheap no one knew what was going on in the rest of the country. There is no economic reason why anyone who calls himself "oldtimer" and grew up in the US to be poor.

Whatever the reason, some people choose to be cash poor. I respect that as long as they are not living on the dole or begging. I knew a middle aged "bag lady" who slept under the freeway but held a full time job. It drove her crazy to sleep inside a building.

Bill, my point was not to use a wide paint brush when applying negatives labels. You said "white trash" aka "poverty class". Lady Eagle said it much better than I can.

"Trash" is a lifestyle and life choices and has nothing to do with economics, but everything to do with character.

Yet you lumped the two together. That's one of the problems that we have today. Too much herding of individuals into designated corrals and then pulling out a paint sprayer.

Herd all people into classes based on income levels. Then apply remedies and/or condemnation upon them, AS A WHOLE, based on their paychecks. ie the evil rich and the poor trash.

"defective social contract" -- Exactly what do you mean by that?

There is no economic reason why anyone who calls himself "oldtimer" and grew up in the US to be poor.

a) You don't have a clue, as to why Oldtimer currently lives below liberals definition of the "poverty level". You don't have a clue as to the economic impact that closing of local textile mills in 1996 had on thousands of people in my geographic area. (Just one example of many I could give. )

b) You don't have a clue, apparently, as to why Oldtimer doesn't/didn't seek the almighty dollar in lieu of everything else. Nor why status symbols of McMansions and BMW's are just not important to me. The older I get, the more I see the results, in lives of others around me, who hold out their hands for a dollar --

career is more important than God
kneeling to a government who is erasing all references to God

-- supporting anything/anyone to get that dollar.

Why do you see the need for Oldtimer to be "rich"?

For whatever it's worth, I AM RICH! And it doesn't have anything to do with the dollars I have or don't have in the bank.

 

[carpro]

I don't think that our white trash aka poverty class population scores better than the class of people who self-identify as "black."

Wanna bet?

From a study published in the NY Times:

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty

So, where do you go from here?

 

[billwald]

>"defective social contract" ?? Exactly what do you mean by that? Where is that in the scriptures

Thread has nothing to do with scriptures.

intro to http://www.iep.utm.edu/soc-cont/


Social Contract Theory
Social contract theory, nearly as old as philosophy itself, is the view that persons’ moral and/or political obligations are dependent upon a contract or agreement among them to form the society in which they live. Socrates uses something quite like a social contract argument to explain to Crito why he must remain in prison and accept the death penalty. However, social contract theory is rightly associated with modern moral and political theory and is given its first full exposition and defense by Thomas Hobbes. After Hobbes, John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau are the best known proponents of this enormously influential theory, which has been one of the most dominant theories within moral and political theory throughout the history of the modern West. In the twentieth century, moral and political theory regained philosophical momentum as a result of John Rawls’ Kantian version of social contract theory, and was followed by new analyses of the subject by David Gauthier and others. More recently, philosophers from different perspectives have offered new criticisms of social contract theory. In particular, feminists and race-conscious philosophers have argued that social contract theory is at least an incomplete picture of our moral and political lives, and may in fact camouflage some of the ways in which the contract is itself parasitical upon the subjugations of classes of persons.

 

[billwald]

>>I don't think that our white trash aka poverty class population scores better than the class of people who self-identify as "black."

>Wanna bet?

>From a study published in the NY Times:
>Quote:
>Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do >just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty

>So, where do you go from here?

Then we are in agreement.

 

[billwald]

Quote:
>>>Originally Posted by billwald

>I grew up dirt poor on a small farm in NC. aka "poverty class"

>>Do you still consider yourself as "poverty class?" I doubt it. I hope not.

>>It was a different economic world 70 years ago. One big factor, before TV got cheap no one knew what was going on in the rest of the country. There is no economic reason why anyone who calls himself "oldtimer" and grew up in the US to be poor.

>>Whatever the reason, some people choose to be cash poor. I respect that as long as they are not living on the dole or begging. I knew a middle aged "bag lady" who slept under the freeway but held a full time job. It drove her crazy to sleep inside a building.


>Bill, my point was not to use a wide paint brush when applying negatives labels. You said "white trash" aka "poverty class". Lady Eagle said it much better than I can.
Quote:
"Trash" is a lifestyle and life choices and has nothing to do with economics, but everything to do with character.
Yet you lumped the two together. That's one of the problems that we have today. Too much herding of individuals into designated corrals and then pulling out a paint sprayer.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I am consistent in teaching/saying that Statistics ONLY applies to groups/classes and NEVER to individuals.

----------------------------------------------------

>Herd all people into classes based on income levels. Then apply remedies and/or condemnation upon them, AS A WHOLE, based on their paychecks. ie the evil rich and the poor trash.

THE RATIONALE of the QUOTATION IN THE OP was that black children should be held to lower academic standards because black children have a lower ability to learn than white kids, inferring that black kids are genetically stupid. I disputed this inference by saying that black people have the same inferior social contract that poor white kids have. Neither poor white kids nor black kids are primed by their environment to succeed in a commercial/industrial environment.


>"defective social contract" -- Exactly what do you mean by that?

I exactly mean their families and their local community determine and govern the environment in which they are raised. Their family and their community do not expect them to do well in school and their family does not teach them to do well in school.

Quote:
There is no economic reason why anyone who calls himself "oldtimer" and grew up in the US to be poor.
a) You don't have a clue, as to why Oldtimer currently lives below liberals definition of the "poverty level". You don't have a clue as to the economic impact that closing of local textile mills in 1996 had on thousands of people in my geographic area. (Just one example of many I could give. )

>b) You don't have a clue, apparently, as to why Oldtimer doesn't/didn't seek the almighty dollar in lieu of everything else. Nor why status symbols of McMansions and BMW's are just not important to me. The older I get, the more I see the results, in lives of others around me, who hold out their hands for a dollar --

No, I am not a mind reader. I DID recognize that some people chose to be cash short as a life style and not because they are stupid and lazy. You didn't understand this?

>career is more important than God
kneeling to a government who is erasing all references to God
-- supporting anything/anyone to get that dollar.

Do you feel morally and spiritually superior to people who enjoy creature comforts?

>Why do you see the need for Oldtimer to be "rich"?

I don't care if you choose to sleep in alleys and eat out of dumpsters - as long as your community ordinance permits such things. It's a free country.


>For whatever it's worth, I AM RICH! And it doesn't have anything to do with the dollars I have or don't have in the bank.

Happiness and freedom are mental states which have nothing to do with external circumstances unless the person wants to be controlled by external circumstances.

 

[carpro]

>>I don't think that our white trash aka poverty class population scores better than the class of people who self-identify as "black."

>Wanna bet?

>From a study published in the NY Times:
>Quote:
>Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do >just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty

>So, where do you go from here?

Then we are in agreement.

You are in agreement with yourself , but not the facts.

 

[targus]

When is our MENSA member - billwald - going to learn how to use the "quote" function? :laugh:

 

[billwald]

NEVER! It is more entertaining to irritate Taugus.

 

[targus]

I don't find you to be irritating...

More like "amusing".

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't find you to be irritating...

More like "amusing".

Kind of like the crazy uncle everyone tolerates. :laugh:

 

[billwald]

I'll work on it.