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Featured A rather complete list of warning Scriptures against OSAS

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Jun 23, 2013.

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  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7 New Member

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    Matt 7:21-23 • Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
    Matt 10:33 • Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
    Matt 13:18-23 • 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
    Matt 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.
    Matt 25:44-46 • Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
    Mark 8:35-36 • Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
    Mark 9:43-48 • Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
    Mark 13:13 • But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally …
    … also see Matt 10:22, Col 1:22-23, Heb 10:35-39, Rev 2:10.
    Luke 9:23-25 • Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
    Luke 14:26-33 • Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple …
    … will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
    John 12:25 • He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
    John 15:1-6 • Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
    John 17:3 • Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
    Rom 1:29-32 • Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
    Rom 2:5-11 • Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
    Rom 6:15-23 • Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
    Rom 8:1-8 • Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
    Rom 8:12-13 • We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die (eternal death).
    Rom 11:20-22 • Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
    1 Cor 6:9-10 • Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
    2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
    2 Cor 13:5 • Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
    Gal 5:1-4 • Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law,
    … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
    Gal 5:19-21 • Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:24 • Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    Gal 6:7-8 • Do not be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
    Eph 5:3-6 • Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
    Eph 5:25-27 • Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
    Phil 2:12-16 • Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
    … so that: (a) you may become blameless, and (b) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
    Col 1:21-29 • Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and
    … “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
    Col 3:5-6 • Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
    1 Tim 4:1 • Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
    1 Tim 5:11-15 • Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
    1 Tim 6:9-14 • Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition …
    … Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
    1 Tim 6:17-19 • Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
    Titus 1:1-3 • Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
    Heb 2:1-4 • Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
    Heb 3:6 • We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    Heb 3:12-15 • Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened …
    … through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
    Heb 3:17-19 • The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
    Heb 4:1 • Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
    Heb 4:11 • Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
    Heb 6:4-8 • Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
    Heb 10:26-27 • If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, we can expect God’s fiery judgment.
    Heb 10:29-31 • The LORD will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
    Heb 10:35-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
    Heb 12:14-15 • Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
    Heb 12:15-17 • Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
    James 1:12-16 • Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin brings forth spiritual death.
    1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
    2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
    2 Pet 2:20-22 • If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before …
    … knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    1 John 1:9 • If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    1 John 2:3-5 • We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
    1 John 2:24-25 • If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us …
    … nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
    1 John 3:15 • If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
    Jude 1:20-21 • 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
    Rev 2:10 • Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life. See Mark 13:13 above.
    Rev 2:11 • He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
    Rev 3:5 • He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
    Rev 21:8 • Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
    Rev 21:27 • Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
    Rev 22:14 • Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
    Rev 22:15 • Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

    The NT is filled with many proofs that the exact opposite of OSAS is true!

    An interesting example … MANY verses talk about the HOPE Christians have of obtaining salvation.
    Rom 5:1-5,8:23-25--Gal 5:5--Titus 1:2,3:7--Col 1:5,1:23--Heb 3:6,10:23--1 Peter 1:13,1:21,3:15--etc.
    .
     
    #1 evangelist-7, Jun 23, 2013
  2. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    You've tried this prior and failed. Is this another attempt to further your failure?

    You've bolded your fonts nicely, but it is again another failure on your part. :wavey:
     
    #2 preacher4truth, Jun 23, 2013
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    We could provide a similar list and you would charge they are out of context. Yet, we have taken these texts one by one and proved they are jerked out of context. You are simply displaying your own ignorance.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Jun 23, 2013
  4. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:
     
    #4 Salty, Jun 23, 2013
  5. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    And another post by the infallible Biblicist charging someone else with ignorance. We are so fortunate to have Biblicist here to dispel all ignorance in all forum members.
     
    #5 Thomas Helwys, Jun 24, 2013
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, your side of the aisle is very good at ridicule and unsustainable out of context assertions but miserable at proper exegesis of Scripture.

    Most of the texts he lists are so obviously jerked out of context it is surprising that he has the gall to even use them.

    You have never entered into any kind of contextual based discussion with me on any text of Scripture. Instead, you run to a philosophical or historical argument as the only safe haven from dealing directly with the Scriptures.
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Jun 24, 2013
  7. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7 New Member

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    In the OP, I have listed 65 proof texts against OSAS.
    Many supporting Scriptures always add up to an unsurmountable weight of evidence
    ... for doctrines such as for-Trinity, against-OSAS, etc.

    Why doesn't an OSAS diehard, instead of emotionally complaining about my proof texts,
    actually take some of them (like 10) and prove that they are not proofs against OSAS?

    Another fun way of looking @ this is ...
    If OSASers were serious and honest at all, they could search to find one of the 65 that they agree with.
    And finding just one clear proof text would prove to them that Scripture says OSAS is false!

    Lots of challenges here for the OSAS diehard ... so pick your poison, as they say!
    .
     
    #7 evangelist-7, Jun 24, 2013
  8. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Actually, I can kill off all 65 with one passage (Ephesians 2):
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    What you post, taken out of context, encourages people to work to ensure their place in heaven; when scripture is quite clear that our works are not to earn our place in heaven, but are because of our salvation and our already-paid-for place in heaven.

    I can also point to Hebrews 10:39 - we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

    Your verses? Simply point to: anyone who doesn't have works, probably isn't saved to begin with (see the book of James).

    And the other side of that coin is: Unsaved people can do the exact same works...and never see Heaven.
     
    #8 Don, Jun 24, 2013
  9. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7 New Member

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    Don, please see my last post about grace, etc. in the "10 favorites" thread.
    .
     
    #9 evangelist-7, Jun 24, 2013
  10. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Hooray for Arminianism!
     
    #10 JohnDeereFan, Jun 24, 2013
  11. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    This is the key. Verses taken out of context and making them say what they do not say - very poor study of the Word of God.
     
    #11 annsni, Jun 24, 2013
  12. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Not sure how I missed that.

    Yes, you are guilty of prooftexting.

    Glad to see you're honest enough to admit it.
     
    #12 JohnDeereFan, Jun 24, 2013
  13. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7 New Member

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    Elsewhere I've asked for proofs that I'm wrong on just 10 of the 65 passages.
    For you, I'm asking for only 5. Nice of me, what?
    .
     
    #13 evangelist-7, Jun 24, 2013
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I've already done that on another thread of yours but I will take your challenge. However, you will have to wait until tomorrow. I am about to head out to finish celebrating our 28th anniversary with a dinner out after just getting home from a 4 day cruise alone on our sailboat with hubby. You come second. LOL :)
     
    #14 annsni, Jun 24, 2013
  15. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    OK - Now I have a few minutes to answer you. We had a very nice dinner out last night BTW - BBQ!

    Rather than picking and choosing, I'll go right for the first 5.

    Let's actually look at the verses in context, including the verses that precede the verses you speak of:

    See that it is speaking of false prophets? Then it speaks of fruit then it goes into the verses you speak of. In context, I cannot see that those who say "Lord, Lord" are believers. I know of many people like this. They have a sense of religion but do not know the God of the Bible. They have a god they have made up in their heads and I'm sure when they stand before the throne of judgment, they will be shocked. They thought they were doing things for God but God never knew them. This passage does not speak to believers but showing that we have those around us who pretend to be one of us but who never were.

    Does a true believer deny Jesus through his life? If I say to myself that I am a child of God but continually deny that I believe in Him before men, am I truly saved? Yes, Peter denied Jesus 3 times. Was he denied before God? I don't believe so. If Peter died in between denial 2 and 3, would he have gone to hell?


    No root - Who is the root in all of the Scriptures? If one doesn't have a root, is he one of God's? No. He has nothing to support him - our support comes from God, not from ourselves. Remember HE is the vine and we are the branches. It is the same with the fruit. We do not provide the fruit but the Spirit does. If we have no fruit, there is no Spirit in us. Both of these are those who, like in Matthew 7 say that they are Christian - even for just a time - but they are not new creations. They are the same as they ever were and do not have the Spirit of God in them.


    So if God forgives your sins when you are saved, He takes that back because we didn't forgive? Is our forgiving others a condition of our salvation or is it a result of our salvation?



    Oh? So we need to run around and help every single human being that we see around us to earn our salvation? If we miss one, we lose out? What a frightening life that is. What if I didn't see the old woman behind me who needed help with her grocery cart and so I wasn't able to help her? What if, heaven forbid, I see someone hungry but I can't feed my own family? Will I lose my salvation for not feeding them - even though I have absolutely no ability to do so?

    Or does this speak to our general lives - that those who are of Christ will serve Him and seek to meet needs in those around them? Remember, there are sheep and goats in this passage. If you can show me where a child of God is called a goat, I'll discuss this one more with you but from my reading of Scripture, God's children are sheep and the world are goats. So we are not speaking of the saved but the unsaved. Saved people have an innate desire in their hearts to help others because of Who resides in us now. The world may want to help but it is not born out of a love for Christ.

    Another thought I just had: Many in the world DO help others. There are pagans right now feeding the hungry, helping those who are in sex trafficking, clothing those who are needy. Will they go to heaven because they did this? Even if they do not believe in God at all? That is the natural result of your thinking - that a Christian can lose his salvation for not feeding the hungry. Then those who DO feed the hungry will go to heaven even if they are not saved.
     
    #15 annsni, Jun 25, 2013
  16. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Praise God for ever more for the eternal security we have, for placing our faith Christ. What great provision God has given, and what great peace we have

    Glory to God!
     
    #16 Alive in Christ, Jun 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2013
  17. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    The good news for us Calvinists is that we do have assurance of our eternal security in Christ.

    For instance,

    Romans 8:29-30 says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.

    How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?

    What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.

    Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?

    How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.

    Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".

    Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.

    In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?

    John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?

    Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?

    John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?

    Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?

    1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?

    If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us.

    Incidentally, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.

    For example, they couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If the OP is right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!

    Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?

    The OP exults in his supposed "victory" over OSAS, but I can't help but wonder if he's ever considered what eternal insecurity actually means in everyday life or the consequences it has on the Gospel.
     
    #17 JohnDeereFan, Jun 25, 2013
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Very good thought provoking list.

    Gal 5:4 speaks to the fallen from Grace state that Calvinists do not even admit - exists. Both fallen from Grace AND "severed FROM Christ".

    And then of course Matt 18 with "Forgiveness revoked".

    And as you point out Romans 11 "you should FEAR - you stand only by your FAITH - IF He did not spare them neither will He spare you".

    Now here is another one to consider -

    1John 2:24
    24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

    1 Cor 9 - "I buffet my body and make it my slave - LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" from that very Gospel where Paul says he wanted "to be a fellow PARTAKER of IT" in 1Cor 9.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #18 BobRyan, Jun 25, 2013
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    did the prophetess teach you in the SDA how to misunderstand/misquote/misapply the scriptures?
     
    #19 Yeshua1, Jun 25, 2013
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I am not the one running away from those texts.

    The mere quote of them causes you to rant against the plain statements of scripture.

    I find only strong affirmation in the actual facts.

    Gal 5:4 speaks to the fallen from Grace state that Calvinists do not even admit - exists. Both fallen from Grace AND "severed FROM Christ".

    And then of course Matt 18 with "Forgiveness revoked".

    And as you point out Romans 11 "you should FEAR - you stand only by your FAITH - IF He did not spare them neither will He spare you".

    Now here is another one to consider -

    1John 2:24
    24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

    1 Cor 9 - "I buffet my body and make it my slave - LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" from that very Gospel where Paul says he wanted "to be a fellow PARTAKER of IT" in 1Cor 9.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #20 BobRyan, Jun 25, 2013
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