1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Non-lordshippers

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    7,598
    Likes Received:
    23
    So then faith without works is... alive??

    If you do NOT confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord... you still can be saved???

    Hmmmm...
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,012
    Likes Received:
    28
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs::thumbs:


    Be prepared for the "question begging" and "logical fallacies" to be flying in 10, 9, 8........
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's not the confession. The confession is "the Lord Jesus." It is a confession of an eternal truth, for there is never a time on one's life that Jesus is not his Lord.

    It's just as John's confession, "Behold the Lamb of God."

    I hope you're making sure all those who come to Christ under your tutelage (and I have to be honest, if your posts here are any indication, it's an event hard to imagine) that they're using just the right words.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yall keep saying that and it, in fact, does nothing to speak to whether or not we should confess Him as Lord.

    OK, so what?


    Just the right words? No, just the right understaning of who God is and the salvation He provides? You bet.
     
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2013
    Messages:
    2,783
    Likes Received:
    158
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Faith without works is dead, but....

    What does "dead" mean? Does dead ever mean fake, spurious, non-existent, not real, etc?

    When James asked his famous rhetorical question, what did he mean by "saved" ??
    Saved from what? Are there any clues?


    Confessing with the mouth. Very interesting that only 3 verses later, Paul says "Call on" instead of confessing with the mouth. But for both, he says it brings "salvation"

    First, saved from what?

    Second, is this confession a one-time deal, or a continual confession, or something different?
     
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's not what lordship salvation is about. It's about being saved by obedience.



    Confessing one is as effectual as confessing the other.



    Well, here we go. Just wondering how well newborn infants know their parents.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No its not. That is a misrepresentation.



    Ok?



    Not a legitimate comparison. If I can share the gospel and communicate that Jesus dies on the cross I can also communicate that we must be willing to obey and make God a priority. In fact I just did that Sunday and a 17 year old teen gave their heart to Christ.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Does God reqwuire us toobey and submit ourselves fully to Him before getting saved by him then?
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, let's see. If obedience isn't required, then it's a certain knowledge. Not all men have the same knowledge. The sins of those who can only bring the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour are atoned for as well as those who are able to bring a lamb.

    It is a Person that saves, not a doctrine, and when that Person is called upon, by whatever name by which He is revealed, that Person saves him.





    See above.





    Absolutely is. Carnal cognition is no substitute for ears to hear.
     
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    That's actually what the OP was :thumbsup:
     
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    A car without a battery is dead.

    Since it has no battery, does it cease to be a car?
     
  12. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not knowing whether I've jumped into a long-standing feud, I have to say that the above statement--as stated here--is incorrect.

    Lordship salvation does deal with "obedience," and it deals with it rightly from a biblical standpoint. However, the statement posted here isn't right because no one is saved "by obedience."

    A better statement of the obedience that Lordship proponents talk about is this: Lordship is about obedience because one has [already] been saved. And, if the obedience isn't there, if we see nothing but rebellion against God and the Bible, then there is sufficient evidence to suggest that salvation never occurred in the first place.

    The Archangel
     
  13. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Aaron, there are no right words to use. Any outward expression of saving faith is just that; an outward expression of an internal reality. The person who repents of their sins and trusts in Christ will display evidence of true conversion (2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 2:10). That is their true confession.
     
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    If you simply take the term literally: salvation by submitting to Christ as Lord, then perhaps you are right. But that is not what LS means.
    Please do a search on Paul Washer + Lordship Salvation and you will find out what the term means, and what is taught as Lordship salvation.
    It does turn out to be salvation by works or by obedience.

    One of Washer's favorite invitations is "Repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved."
    But how does a person repent of his sins? No one can remember all his sins much less repent of them. No such command is given in the NT.
    That is gospel of works.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    LS teaches that one must take up their cross and follow Him FOR salvation, not once you are saved. It is an exchange.
     
  16. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,960
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Taking up one's cross is only possible after regeneration. It is made possible by a work of grace having already taken place in the life of the individual.

    John MacArthur, arguably the most prolific proponent of Lordship Salvation in the 20th and early 21st centuries says this about Lordship Salvation:

    "Repentance is a turning from sin (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47) that consists not of a human work but of a divinely bestowed grace (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25). It is a change of heart, but genuine repentance will effect a change of behavior as well (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18-20)."

    Taking the mantle of a true disciple (i.e taking up one's cross) is not a human work. It is a work of grace given by God. The proof that the work of grace is present in the individual is actually taking the mantle of a true disciple.
     
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    Lordship Salvation was not known before the mid-20th century. It is a new doctrine. You won't find that term in older commentaries.
    First, note that one who is not a Calvinist is not bound to accept a Calvinistic definition of "repentance." I don't agree with it.
    You still have sanctification and salvation confused.

    Here is a better definition of regeneration:
    “God regenerates (John 1:13) according to His will (James 1:18) through the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) when a person believes (John 1:12) the gospel as revealed in the Word of God (1 Peter 1:23).”
    Charles C. Ryrie, The Holy Spirit

    Note that regeneration takes place at the same time as salvation. One is not regenerated before salvation. The requirement for salvation is not repentance (works) but rather faith (sola fide).
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No such thing as a Calvinistic version of repentance. As a non cal I can tell you that many, many people all over this country have the same version of repentance. In fact your version is not all that common.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    To be specific there are many unbiblical definitions of repentance.
    Paul Washer uses one. MacArther implies another.
    When Washer states that in order to be saved you must repent of your sins, he shows his lack of understanding of repentance. No one can repent of their sins. No one can remember all their sins, much less repent of them all. The Bible does not demand that an unsaved person repent of his sins.
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I agree that taking up your cross is post regeneration and entails discipleship not justification, but LS confuses the two.

    “Anyone who wants to come after Jesus into the Kingdom of God, anyone who wants to be a Christian, has to face three commands: 1) deny himself, 2) take up his cross daily, and 3) follow him.” (Hard to Believe, p. 6.)
     
Loading...