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Youth Ministry; Man Created not Biblically Mandated

Discussion in 'Youth Forum' started by T Alan, Dec 20, 2014.

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  1. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    sometimes it's not about being "right" it's about the other guy (or fictional character) being wrong. gagagagaga
     
    #21 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Seems like Poncho has a twin who posts on forums other than news & politics.

    I am ready to give the twin of Poncho the same button push......
     
    #22 Salty, Dec 21, 2014
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    The idea of having children above a certain age being out of the service completely is wrong to me. I enjoy worshipping together as a family. What our church does is to have everyone in church during the singing time with families together. We sing a song, greet and then sing three more songs. Then it is time for the pastoral prayer and the kids are released to go to Sunday school. This is up to 6th grade. Above 6th, they stay in the service although right now we have two 7th graders going because otherwise it would be just a brother and sister attending and so we all decided that my daughter and her friend would go for one more year until hopefully we have a few more kids (Sunday attendance is only about 40-50). Children are welcome to stay in the service as long as they stay with their parents and aren't TOO noisy. We have a 2.5 month old that stays with mom and dad (no nursery set up right now) and she can be chatty sometimes but that's fine. We also have an 18 year old severely handicapped young man who can be noisy as well but he is welcome to stay too.

    But I think for the message time, it is good for the children to have a message that they can really grasp and oftentimes that means bringing them out to a class for their age group. I absolutely think that teens should be in the service and if possible, even serving in the church. Being a part of something is vital, IMO.
     
    #23 annsni, Dec 21, 2014
  4. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    So, the 6th and lower don't attend the corporate worship? Or is this "Sunday School" prior to the worship hour?
     
    #24 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    ALL children are in during the worship time which is about the first 20-25 minutes of the service. Then they are released for Sunday school, we have the pastoral prayer, the offering and then the message for the adults. Hubby tends to preach 30-40 minutes and it might be long for very little ones to sit through but if a family decides to keep their child with them, that's totally fine too. :)
     
    #25 annsni, Dec 21, 2014
  6. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    In New Testament times, teenagers were still considered to be adults. They're schooling was over, and they started families. There was no "teen ministry", because there wasn't a classification of "teenager".



    In today's world, teens face a completely different set of challenges than do adults or children. Teens today feel more disconnected from adults, and in truth, many adults truly do not understand what pressures today's teens are facing. The era has changed.



    They need someone who has successfully navigated the challenges they face, so that they can relate.



    It's the same as many issues today. With my PTSD, I am not going to listen to someone who's not been there trying to tell me how to cope with it. How many pastors today (probably more than 10-20 years ago) had to deal with cell phones as a ten? Cyber bullying? The readily available porn from any computer or smart phone? And many other issues. Sure, the Bible speaks of standards and how to deal with temptation, but on a practical application, they need someone to relate to.
     
    #26 Sapper Woody, Dec 21, 2014
  7. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So Alan - can you show me where these items listed above are Prohibited by Scripture?

    Until then ....
     
    #27 Salty, Dec 21, 2014
  8. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Yeah, I'm sure of this one. Just look at what many churches do with them. Send them out from the gathering. It's not the Churches "job" to teach them to deal with cell phones, cyber bulling et cetera, that is where the PARENT should be. The purpose of the "Church" as it relates to "Teens" is to teach them to worship God with the body in truth and Spirit.

    The Gospel is for all people of all ages. I believe in Family Integrated Church as the best for accomplishing this for all ages. I also believe that the Parent should be doing what it "thinks" the "YOUTH Pastor" is doing.
     
    #28 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  9. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    This is the second time you have seemingly "threatened"me. The first was a "visit to ask me personally" and now pushing some sort of button.

    I think you need a dose of "working medicine". Push that..:flower::love2:
     
    #29 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  10. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Ahh. You refer to the musical portion of the service as "worship". I call everthing done the "worship service". Prayer, Singing, Preaching, Testimony, Praise reports etc..

    I personally think the "teens" are old enough to sit under the proclamation of the Word, it is the word that changes a man (kid). A shame many think they aren't "ready" to sit under the preaching.
     
    #30 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  11. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    uh Salty, Electricity wasn't available in Jesus' day. If it was I'm sure He would have been an Electrician instead of Stone Mason. They also didn't preach out of the New Testament because they were the New Testament. As for committees, that could be argued. Just because something isn't "prohibited" doesn't make it the thing to do.
     
    #31 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Any reason you didn't answer about musical instruments? I cant think of one place in the NT, where instruments were used in worship. From you stated before - then we should not have committees. Or how about Chairman of the Deacons.
     
    #32 Salty, Dec 21, 2014
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, that's just our terminology. Our teens all sit in the whole service. My daughter would be sitting in the service as well at 11 years old but she chose to help make the other kids comfortable and to make sure there are more than just two in Sunday school. My son started staying in for the message at 11 years old as did my older daughters. It's just we have a bit of a different situation right now so we are changing things up a bit. I am looking forward to when she can stay in and hear dad's messages and be a part of the conversation on the way home about what we were taught that day and how dad did in communicating the Word. :)
     
    #33 annsni, Dec 21, 2014
  14. Gib

    Gib Active Member

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    Our children and youth have separate Sunday School classes & Wednesday night Bible studies/activities.

    2nd graders & up sit in with the adults for Sunday morning worship. K-12 sit with adults on Sunday evenings.
     
    #34 Gib, Dec 21, 2014
  15. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    I'm with T Alan on this one, I can't imagine how anybody cannot look at the statistics as a whole and not acknowledge that the "current" model of youth ministry is not working. Not to say that there aren't hard working folks in the trenches that are working with youth and having some success. But by and large the model most churches are using does not work.

    And that is part of the problem as well in my opinion, by and large children are not challenged, neither are adults. I've been in church all of my life and the vast majority of that time it was milk only to adults and children. Only over the past few years have I gotten meat, and that's from searching it out because I was tired of milk.
     
    #35 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    You quoted a study that said in part:
    "If you discovered about half of the students in your church's youth ministry were going to walk away from Christ after entering college,"

    What was the % of teens who walked away before the modern youth ministry began?
     
    #36 Salty, Dec 21, 2014
  17. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    Yes, real easy solution to the problems that Sapper Woody mentions. Its the parent's responsibility. Here is a great article from Challies

    http://www.challies.com/articles/please-dont-give-them-porn-for-christmas

    :thumbs: :thumbs: I agree with you T Alan, as for me and mine that's how we will roll. Here is a great article from TGC:

     
    #37 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
  18. Gib

    Gib Active Member

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    "The parents responsibility" is only good if the parents are part of the equation. We have youth in our church and in other area churches whose parents aren't Christians, much less go to church. Whose responsibility is it then?
     
    #38 Gib, Dec 21, 2014
  19. T Alan

    T Alan New Member

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    Still the Parents. Evangelize the Parents. Till the Men get right the family will never be right, till the family gets right the "Church" won't be right.
     
    #39 T Alan, Dec 21, 2014
  20. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    The church I currently attend has a model that sounds somewhat similar to that of Ann. No Sunday School, but the younger children are divided up by age and given classroom instruction after the first part of the service (worship music, prayer, welcoming, etc.). The teens stay through the whole service. But there is no organized youth group. The church seeks to equip the parents to be the leaders in the home and be instrumental in presenting the gospel to their children. The leadership takes extra care with children to avoid rushing and manipulating children to make "decisions".

    To answer your question though about the stats I don't know what to tell you. Infant baptism was big back in the day, every parent wants their children to be saved. I believe it is in God's hands, but I have a responsibility as a parent to present the Gospel and point my child to Christ through the ups and downs of life. I'm not talking about morality, morality will not save, only the Gospel will.
     
    #40 Thousand Hills, Dec 21, 2014
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