Featured Is Ukraine the Sacrificial Lamb

What's the difference between what I post and what you post?

I can provide evidence to support what I post. You on the other hand have to resort to name calling and "monkey business" to support what you post.

One would think that for a guy that puts as much stock in "'crediblility" as you do you'd at least be able to support what you say with some actual honest to goodness evidence. See definition above.

But apparently you're having some difficulty finding it among all the "mainstream" corporate sponsored allegations.

Here's how our "disscusions" usually go . . .

OR says, "Russia Invaded And Occupied Crimea!"

Poncho says, "show me the proof".

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist or I'll sick my monkey on you!"

Poncho says, "under the partition treaty signed by Russia and Ukraine, Russia is allowed to have up to 25,000 troops in Crimea"

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist or I'll sick my monkey on you!"

Poncho says, "Under the terms of this treaty Russia is allowed to have up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems 100 mm or smaller, 132 armored vehicles and 22 military aircraft in Crimea."

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist or I'll sick my monkey on you!"

Poncho says, "Okay then show me the proof (see definition above) you have that Russia has indeed 'invaded and occupied' Crimea."

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist I already gave you the proof, Mark P. Lagon said; 'On March 18, 2014, the Kremlin followed its illegal invasion of Crimea by officially annexing the peninsula."

Poncho says, "That's not proof, that's an allegation (see definition above) with no supporting evidence (see definition above). I asked for evidence not another allegation. BTW I can only view everything your "source" is claiming if I register with WSJ and pay Rupert Murdoch a dollar a week for the "privilege" of reading the rest of Mark P. Lagon's baseless (see definition below) allegations.

Baseless: without foundation in fact

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist all you ever post is BULL, Na Na Na Na Na Na!"

Poncho Says, "I think you must have "evidence" (see definition above) and "BULL" (see definition below) confused OR. I've gone to great lengths to explain exactly what the difference between an unfounded "allegation" and "evidence" is. I even posted links to the definitions to make it easier for you to understand.

Bull: an uncastrated male bovine animal.

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist or I'll sick my monkey on you, Russia invaded and occupied Crimea, Mark P. Lagon said so!!! He has big time corporate sponsors so it must be true!!!"

Poncho says, "I don't suppose you're ever going to understand that saying something and proving it are two different things."

OR says, "shut up conspiracy theorist or I'll sick my monkey on you all you ever post is BULL!!!"

Poncho says, :tonofbricks:

Meanwhile back in Crimea one year on . . .

Russian Crimea: One Year Later

NATO calls Crimea "invaded" and "occupied." NATO has taught the world well what invasion and occupation really looks like, and Crimea isn't it.

< snip >

In 2003, NATO-members joined the United States in the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. An estimated 1 million people would lose their lives, including thousands of Western troops. For nearly a decade the United State occupied Iraq, and during its attempts to prop up a suitable client regime, laid waste to the nation. American forces in their bid to exercise control over the Iraqi population would conduct sweeping assaults on entire cities. The city of Fallujah would be leveled nearly to the ground, twice.

The US also maintained prison camps across the entire nation. Some vast and spanning, others dark and secret, including the infamous Abu Ghraib prison and the atrocities carried out there. In addition to Western armed forces, a significant number of paid mercenaries participated in both the occupation and the atrocities carried out during it, including the mass killing of civilians resulting in criminal cases still reverberating through Western legal systems and undermining Western credibility worldwide.

This is what real invasions and occupations look like. The armed entrance into a nation, the absolute subjugation of all its people through maximum force - or as the US calls it "shock and awe" - and an occupation by gunpoint with tanks and troops in the streets of a people who do not want them there, and who are willing to fight and die to drive them out.

Continue . . . http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/

Poncho says, "that's what an invasion and occupation actually looks like. Can you show me where that has happened in Crimea OR?"

I'll go ahead and re-post all the "evidence" CMG has provided in this thread now so he doesn't have to strain himself repeating it.

Anyone care to guess what OR's next reply will be? Will he show us some actual evidence this time or will he call me a conspiracy theorist and threaten to sick his monkey on me again?

Now for some real BULL from Faux Snews.

Fox ‘News’ ‘Expert’ Says We Must “Start Killing Russians.”

On this video from Fox ‘News':

At 3:30, Lou Dobbs asks the Fox Noise military analyst: “What do you expect” in Ukraine?

At 3:35 he answers: “In the Ukraine, the only way that the United States can have any effect in this region and turn the tide is to start killing Russians … killing so many Russians that even Putin’s media can’t hide the fact that Russians are returning to the motherland in body bags.”

Well, anyway, there is a Republican ‘news’ operation: “Start killing Russians.” They hate Russians so much the hate practically bleeds from them, even in public. Democratic Party ‘news’ operatives are so much more subtle about it, such as “A military solution to this problem is not going to be forthcoming.” But they too demonize Russians and portray Putin as the super-demon. They’re just more subtle about their war-mongering and promotion of the international aristocracy, than Republicans are.

What the Fox ‘expert’ was specifically promoting there, to “Kill Russians,” is actually what the regime that Obama imposed upon Ukraine had been installed in order to do. And, so, immediately when they took power in late February of 2014, they demonized ethnic Russians and threatened to kill all Russians. They then intensively bombed the ethnic Russian region of Ukraine, as a starter to get rid of Russians and pro-Russians everywhere.

Continue . . . http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/fox-news-expert-says-must-start-killing-russians-disagree.html

Notice that Fox's "expert" claims there are "12,000 Russian troops in Ukraine" but offers no evidence to support this claim.

In that case then Faux Snews "expert" is calling General Viktor Muzhenko (the general of the whole Ukrainian army appointed by Poroshenko) a liar.

Because on Friday January 29, 2015 Ukraine General Viktor Muzhenko admitted his army is not fighting against Russian troops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNx2DvY3qaw

I guess OR missed this bit of information again. This is what the fourth or fifth time he's missed (overlooked, ignored) it now?

Apparently Faux Snews "expert" either missed this bit of information or he is overlooking/ignoring it and lying through his teeth.

What that's you say? Faux Snews doesn't lie or have liars on their programs?

PunditFact, a sister site of PolitiFact dedicated to fact-checking pundits and talking heads, last looked at its network scorecards in September. The scorecards measure statements made by a pundit or a host or paid contributor on a particular network. They do not include statements made by elected leaders, declared candidates or party officials.

So what’s the latest tally?

At Fox and Fox News, 10 percent of the claims PunditFact has rated have been True, 11 percent Mostly True, 18 percent Half True, 21 percent Mostly False, 31 percent False and nine percent Pants on Fire.

That means about 60 percent of the claims checked have been rated Mostly False or worse. Here’s how it breaks down (as of Jan. 27, 2015):

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jan/29/punditfact-checks-cable-news-channels/

 

I doubt anyone will remember Maj. Gen. Robert Scales (see video) participation in the Pentagon's "message force multiplier" program. Doesn't matter because I do.

Read all about Maj. Gen Robert Scales and the Pentagon's "message force multipliers" below.

Behind TV Analysts, Pentagon’s Hidden Hand

To the public, these men are members of a familiar fraternity, presented tens of thousands of times on television and radio as “military analysts” whose long service has equipped them to give authoritative and unfettered judgments about the most pressing issues of the post-Sept. 11 world.

Hidden behind that appearance of objectivity, though, is a Pentagon information apparatus that has used those analysts in a campaign to generate favorable news coverage of the administration’s wartime performance, an examination by The New York Times has found.

The effort, which began with the buildup to the Iraq war and continues to this day, has sought to exploit ideological and military allegiances, and also a powerful financial dynamic: Most of the analysts have ties to military contractors vested in the very war policies they are asked to assess on air.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/20/us/20generals.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Pentagon military analyst program

Background of Pentagon War Propagandists in the US TV Networks

The Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld covert propaganda program was launched in early 2002 by then-Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs Victoria Clarke. The idea was to recruit "key influentials" to help sell a wary public on "a possible Iraq invasion." Former NBC military analyst Kenneth Allard called the effort "psyops on steroids." [1] <--- references.

Eight thousand pages of the documents relative to the Pentagon military analyst program were made available by the Pentagon in PDF format online May 6, 2008 at this website:

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/milanalysts/

Text-searchable versions of the documents are available via the SourceWatch page Pentagon military analyst program: Documents. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Pentagon_military_analyst_program:_Documents

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Pentagon_military_analyst_program

Looks like Faux Snews is still using the Pentagon's "message force multipliers" aka military propagandists (with ties to the military industrial complex) to support Washington's totally unfounded "official 'Russia invaded Ukraine' narrative".

I guess some things never change. And BTW for those who don't know, Rupert Murdoch owns and controls both Faux Snews and the Wall Street Journal. so it should come as no surprise that Faux Snews and WSJ are using the very same unfounded allegations to promote the Washington/neocon warmonger's false narrative about "Russian aggression" and the "Russian invasion" of Ukraine.

Poncho says, "See how i did that OR? That's how you go about providing evidence (see definition below)."

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Poncho says, "Now OR, can you do that or not?"

OR says, . . .

 

At my age that's to be expected I reckon. :smilewinkgrin:

Even so that doesn't dismiss the fact that you still haven't posted any evidence in support of your allegations.

How about it there "big guy" put some evidence where your monkey and snide remarks usually go.

Unless you can't, and I think at this point you've already proven over the course of a year that you can't ten times over.

 

Just when you think the third grade level of maturity your debate opponents proudly put on display for all to see can't go any lower along comes one displaying a second grade level of maturity. :tonofbricks:

Well, can you? There's five pages left. Let's see what you can do. :type:

 

Poncho is working on a warning about how Estonia is getting ready to declare war on botox face.

 

So your answer is no then. big surprise.

 

For a couple of guys that can't show me any evidence to back up your allegations you sure are cocky.

But I guess when that's all ya got, that's all ya can provide. :type:

 

Oh, there's a lot of stuff out there on the internet about old communists who want to restore the Soviet Union and who idolize botox face, who wants to retake the Baltic states. The only ones who agree with you, Poncho, are botox face supporters.

 

If what you keep saying is true then prove it.

Or keep taking cheap shots at me and posting stupid images like you have been and prove that you're incapable of proving what you claim is true.

You and OR have been doing a splendid job of showing everyone your inability to prove your claims for a whole year now. Why stop now?

Let's see some of the evidence you "claim" exists. Or keep doing what you've been doing and show everyone you can't.

 

Fox ‘News’ ‘Expert’ Says We Must “Start Killing Russians.”

On this video from Fox ‘News':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvn3LEx9dhw#t=217

International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

Article 20

1. Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.

2. Any advocacy of national, racial or religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law.

 

Poncho, you are the one who keeps repeating that botox face is innocent of any crime against humanity. I think that you drank the Kremlin Kool-Aid.

 

Well why not right? I mean you keep making accusations you can't prove to be true so why not start telling some lies about me to?

I have never claimed Putin is this that or the other and you know it and so does everyone else that has been reading these threads. And I challenge you to PROVE that I ever said such a thing.

Bad enough you've had to resort to acting like an immature third grader but now you have to stoop to lying also?

That's sad. But not all that unexpected.

If you can't prove what you are accusing me of is true then I expect you to apologize like a man for lying about me.

Anyone else want to see CMG prove his latest accusation against me or apologize for making a false accusation? Don't be shy step right up or is there no one left on this board with any integrity?

 

Igor Vyacheslavovich Sutyagin is a Russian arms control and nuclear weapons specialist. Mr Vyacheslavovich has degrees in Physics and history, and is a Research Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies in the UK. He was also a political prisoner for 11 years in Russia according to Human Rights Watch.

He has written an overview of Russia’s involvement in Ukraine and writes:

“Direct intervention by Russian troops in combat roles then followed in the middle of August, when the prospect of rebel defeat had become realistic. The presence of large numbers of Russian troops on Ukrainian sovereign territory has, more or less, since become a permanent feature of the conflict.”, and shows a table of units that have been involved. LINK

Russia, and its friends in the US, continue to deny the existence of such Russian troops in Ukraine. But they are increasingly sounding like Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, who has stated, “it is difficult to look for a black cat in a dark room, all the more so if the cat is smart, brave and polite”… wink wink.

 

A Russian secret agent freed last week is stranded in a hotel in a 'provincial' town on the outskirts of London, it was claimed yesterday.

Igor Sutyagin is still in his prison clothes, without cash and only a phonecard with limited credit to make contact with his family.

The homesick Russian is said to be 'lonely and confused' about his alleged treatment by MI6, which shatters the James Bond image of last Friday's choreographed spy hand-over by espionage chiefs in Washington and Moscow.

Sutyagin, 45, arrived in Britain on a CIA-chartered jet in the most dramatic spy swap since the end of the Cold War.

The nuclear weapons expert was one of four Russians exchanged for ten spies operating in the U.S, including 'femme fatale' Anna Chapman.

He had been convicted of passing on information about Russia's spy fleet to a London firm that was being used as a front for the CIA.

Continue . . . http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293924/Freed-Russian-spy-Igor-Sutyagin-dumped-town-outskirts-London-visa-cash.html

Sounds like a real trust worthy guy Lewis.

Can you point out where the evidence is in this report? I hate to sound like a broken record but just because someone says something doesn't mean it's true.

Where's the evidence? Images of Russian troops in Ukraine? Sat photos of troop movements? Images of Russian tanks with Russian drivers in Ukraine?

Images and/or video of destroyed Russian tanks and armored vehicles in Ukraine?

Got evidence?

And why add this?

Am I a "friend of Russia" simply because I ask Russia's accusers to prove their allegations? Does asking for evidence make me anti American? Have you done any research into your source The Royal United Services Institute? Who are they? How are they funded? Do they have ties to the Pentagon or the military industrial complex as the "message force multipliers" I spoke of earlier? Do they have an agenda? What is it?

Do you ask yourself any of these questions when reading news "reports" or hearing some supposed "expert" speak or do you just except his word because he claims to be an expert? These are the kinds of questions journalists used to ask but to hear OR and CMG tell it only "conspiracy theorists" and people with "loose screws" ask these kinds of questions now.

Why is asking questions and searching for the truth now considered to be some kind of "sickness"?

And what about Ukraine's top General Viktor Muzhenko who on Friday January 29, 2015 admitted his army is not fighting against Russian troops. Is he a "friend of Russia" also?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNx2DvY3qaw

Flipping back to the MH17 "shoot down" The Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) in a statement titled, "The Downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17: Russia in the Dock," provides a self-incriminating indictment as to the motives Kiev and its NATO backers had in carrying out the attack on MH17 and subsequently framing Russia for it. RUSI's statement claims (emphasis added):

A Game Change: Within days, however, the real debate will shift from one about producing the right evidence and culprits, to more about what can be saved from the rapidly-deteriorating relations between Russia and the West.

The tragedy will stain Russia’s relations with the world for years to come. Nations determined to keep on good terms with Russia – such as China or Vietnam which relies on Russian weapon supplies and wishes these to continue - will keep quiet. And there will always be some plausible deniability, giving other countries enough room for manoeuvre to avoid accusing Russia directly for this disaster. But the culprits for the crime will be pursued by international investigators and tribunals. And many Russian officials will be added to the ‘wanted’ lists of police forces around the world. The story will linger, and won’t be pretty for Russian diplomats.

Given the fact that the majority of the victims are European citizens, it is also getting increasingly difficult to see how France would be able to deliver the Mistral ships which Russia ordered for its navy, or how Britain could continue shielding Russia from financial sanctions. And, given the fact that scores of US citizens were also killed on the MH17 flight means that the US Congress will demand greater sanctions on Russia, making any improvement in relations with Washington highly unlikely.

RUSI explains in great detail the possible motivation Kiev and NATO had to shoot down MH17 and subsequently frame Russia.

Read More At: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/07/mh17-world-see-tragedy-us-sees-game.html

 

Thank you very much for posting what the whole world knows to be true in spite of the disinformation from the far left.

 

CMG, yes it is pretty much an open secret that Russian troops are taking part in the Ukraine "uprising".