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The origins of the modern demonic uprising of Islam....from Greely Colorado

Iconoclast

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https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The America I have seen_djvu.txt

Look at what he said and observed in the church's back then;
Churches without Life



There is no people who enjoys building churches more than the Americans. To
the extent that I once stayed in a town with no more than ten thousand
inhabitants, yet within it I found over twenty churches! And most of them do not
go to church on Sunday mornings and evenings, but instead on general holidays
and holidays for local saints, who far outnumber the "saints" of the common
Muslims in Egypt. Ali this notwithstanding there is no one further than the
American from appreciating the spirituality of religion and respect for its
sacraments, and there is nothing farther from religion than the American' s
thinking and his feelings and manners.

Churches for Carousal and Enjoyment

If the church is a place for worship in the entire Christian world, in America it is
for everything but worship. You will find it difficult to differentiate between it
and any other place. They go to church for carousal and enjoyment, or, as they
call it in their language "fun." Most who go there do so out of necessary social
tradition, and it is a place for meeting and friendship, and to spend a nice time.
This is not only the feeling of the people, but it is also the feeling of the men of
the church and its ministers.

The Clubs of the Church and Their Attractions

In most churches there are clubs that join the two sexes, and every minister
attempts to attract to his church as many people as possible, especially since
there is a tremendous competition between churches of different denominations.
And for this reason, each church races to advertise itself with lit, colored signs on
the doors and walls to attract attention, and by presenting delightful programs to
attract the people much in the same way as merchants or showmen or actors.
And there is no compunction about using the most beautiful and graceful girls of
the town, and engaging them in song and dance, and advertising.

A Church's Party Program

This is an example of the text of an advertisement for a church party that was
posted in the student's union of one of the colleges.

"Sunday, October lst, 6: 00 P .M. snacks, magic games, puzzles, contests,

fun"



There is nothing strange in this, for the minister does not feel that his job is any
different from that of a theater manager, or that of a merchant. Success comes
first and before everything, and the means are not important, and this success
will reflect on him with fine results: money and stature. The more people that
join his church, the greater is his income. Likewise, his respect and recognition is
elevated in the community, because the American by his nature is taken with
grandeur in size and numbers. It is his first measure of the way he feels and
evaluates.

A Hot Night at the Church

One night I was in a church in Greeley, Colorado, I was a member in its club as I
was a member in a number of church clubs in every area that I had lived in, for
this is an important facet of American society, deserving close study from the
inside. After the religious service in the church ended, boys and girls from
among the members began taking part in chants, while others prayed, and we
proceeded through a side door onto the dance floor that was connected to the
prayer hall by a door, and the Father jumped to his desk and every boy took the
hand of a giri, including those who were chanting.

The dance floor was lit with red and yellow and blue lights, and with a few white
lamps. And they danced to the tunes of the gramophone, and the dance floor
was replete with tapping feet, enticing legs, arms wrapped around waists, lips
pressed to lips, and chests pressed to chests. The atmosphere was full of desire.
When the minister descended from his office, he looked intently around the
place and at the people, and encouraged those men and women still sitting who
had not yet participated in this circus to rise and take part. And as he noticed
that the white lamps spoiled the romantic, dreamy atmosphere, he set about,
with that typical American elegance and levity, dimming them one by one, all
the while being careful not to interfere with the dance, or bump into any couples
dancing on the dance floor. And the place really did appear to become more
romantic and passionate. Then he advanced to the gramophone to choose a song
that would befit this atmosphere and encourage the males and the females who
were still seated to participate.

And the Father chose. He chose a famous American song called "But Baby, It's
Cold Outside," which is composed of a dialogue between a boy and a giri
returning from their evening date. The boy took the giri to his home and kept her
from leaving. She entreated him to let her return home, for it was getting late,



and her mother was waiting but every time she would make an excuse, he would
reply to her with this line: but baby, its cold outside!

And the minister waited until he saw people stepping to the rhythm of this
moving song, and he seemed satisfied and contented. He left the dance floor for
his home, leaving the men and the women to enjoy this night in all its pleasure
and innocence!
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
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https://archive.org/stream/SayyidQutb/The America I have seen_djvu.txt

Look at what he said and observed in the church's back then;
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/a-lesson-in-hate-109822568/?no-ist
A turning point came for Sayyid Qutb in 1949 when he was sent to the United States for higher studies in educational administration. Over a two year period he worked in several different institutions including what was then Wilson Teachers' College in Washington, D.C. and Colorado State College for Education in Greeley, as well as Stanford University. He also travelled extensively visiting the major cities of the United States and spent time in Europe on the return journey to Egypt. His reaction to the Western experience was decidedly negative; he found Western society hopelessly materialistic, corrupt, morally loose, and ridden with injustice. He was especially distressed by the disrespect shown to Arabs in the United States and the overwhelming support of its people for the state of Israel, founded in 1948. One of the most popular of his books, Social Justice in Islam (1948), reflects his critical attitude to the West.
 

blessedwife318

Well-Known Member
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Well I must say it was surprising to see my former hometown mentioned in a topic thread. Not the best way for my former hometown to be mentioned. Tragic that even back 40s and 50s churches would rather entertain goats than feed sheep. Of course there are still churches in that town that are more social clubs than anything else.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
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Well I must say it was surprising to see my former hometown mentioned in a topic thread. Not the best way for my former hometown to be mentioned. Tragic that even back 40s and 50s churches would rather entertain goats than feed sheep. Of course there are still churches in that town that are more social clubs than anything else.
Many have said it was his essays that helped light the flame of the anti west movement
 

John of Japan

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As someone who lived decades in an Asian country, I find to be ridiculous the idea that a Muslim from Egypt in 1950 could understand this country in just two short years in an academic environment. We can safely ignore the ignorant opinions of this radical with his terror-inspiring presuppositions.

And I find it equally ridiculous to blame Muslim terrorism on any form of American thinking, political or theological. America and Israel have no responsibility in the slightest for Muslim terrorism.
 
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kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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There is a strange chemistry and mix of factors that looks ominous.
Liberal attitudes, politics, and theology feed into Islams wickedness.

the politics of Dispensationalism

open it up a bit kyred..

This is basically a taboo topic here. Someone will perceive that their idol is being bashed and report the discussion and Admin will delete, censor, or shut it down.

what is the worst part of it all that invites the judgment?

The rebellion in refusing to accept God's arrangement as presented in passages such as Philippians 3:2-3, Romans 2:29, Romans 9:6, Galatians 6:15 to name a few. The idolatry in the gross misapplication of Genesis 12:3 that has resulted in the mindset that "Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us." The hypocrisy of lamenting the murder of the unborn while unconditionally supporting the inflicting of misery and murder on those living. "There is no such thing as Palestinians" is the notion that justifies their turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed. The findings of the 911 Commission brought to light the animosity the Arabs have for us directly because of U.S. unconditional support of Israel.

To name just a few.
 
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TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Wow! I have seen some straw men erected on the BB but that one makes the Scarecrow look like solid granite!
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the politics of Dispensationalism



This is basically a taboo topic here. Someone will perceive that their idol is being bashed and report the discussion and Admin will delete, censor, or shut it down.



The rebellion in refusing to accept God's arrangement as presented in passages such as Philippians 3:2-3, Romans 2:29, Romans 9:6, Galatians 6:15 to name a few. The idolatry in the gross misapplication of Genesis 12:3 that has resulted in the mindset that "Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us." The hypocrisy of lamenting the murder of the unborn while unconditionally supporting the inflicting of misery and murder on those living. "There is no such thing as Palestinians" is the notion that justifies their turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed. The findings of the 911 Commission brought to light the animosity the Arabs have for us directly because of U.S. unconditional support of Israel.

To name just a few.
Thanks for the link. It opens up several related articles worthy of consideration.
Islam hates everyone to begin with as it is of the devil.
Israel has been hated since rejecting Jesus, except for the remnant in the early church.
I believe the church has always been plan A.
Dispensationalism keeps it separate and less than OT.Israel.
I think a thread on this is in order.
 

HankD

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Here is the real reason behind the centuries old war between the descendants of Jacob (aka Israel) and the descendants of Ishmael:

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

To attribute this conflict to Nelson Darby or Scofield, etc ... IMO is an overreach as "Jihad" was going on between Israel and Ismael long before Darby or Scofield were born.

Not that I approve in toto of the theological view of either, I don't.

Actually the theological conflict is between Mohamed and Jesus.


HankD
 
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HankD

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U.S. unconditional support of Israel has given rise to radical Islam

....thanks to the potent political clout of Christian Zionism, i.e. Darbyism, Scofieldism, Dispensationalism, etc.
OK, I think I know what you are getting at (maybe).

The "Dispensational" point of view leads to (or can lead to) an unhealthy political view of 21st century national Israel and I do agree.

National, political 21st century Israel should be accountable for their national sins in the same way any other nation is held accountable.

They do however have a history of persecution which can lead to mistrust on their part, they do have a right to defend themselves.

The "Jihad" mentality of Islam reaches far back into history preceding even the "Christian Era".

In fact "jihad" appears to originate with Ishmael (if you accept Genesis 16:12 as prophetic).

Genesis 16
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Brethren: Jacob (aka Israel).

So, in my view while Israel is not sinless in this "jihad" conflict it is an overreach to pin it on dispensationalism.

HankD
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe the church has always been plan A.
Dispensationalism keeps it separate and less than OT.Israel.
I think a thread on this is in order.
This is a complete misunderstanding of Dispensationalism, and a false accusation. The system by no means makes the church less than OT Israel.

It is this kind of silliness and mis-characterization that prevents me from ever taking part in a discussion about the subject here on the BB, even though I teach a course in Dispensational Theology. :mad:
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I think a thread on this is in order.

Lol, don't wait on me to initiate it. I've better things to do (like planting fall green onions, lettuce, kohlrabi, rutabega, carrots, pak choi, beets, and maybe some others) than to take the unwarranted pummeling that's sure to result.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lol, don't wait on me to initiate it. I've better things to do (like planting fall green onions, lettuce, kohlrabi, rutabega, carrots, pak choi, beets, and maybe some others) than to take the unwarranted pummeling that's sure to result.
But K - you did initiate this current disagreement with provocative statements about dispensationalism.

HankD
 
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