What constitutes a Baptist church?

[Salty]

In another thread, TCassidy stated:
A baptist church is a church that believes:

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper)
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved, Baptized Church membership
Two Offices (Pastor/Elder/Overseer & Deacon)

First: it should be noted that this acronym was developed by Dr. L. Duane Brown. and is his book "Biblical Basis for Baptists" ©
Dr Brown went on to become State Rep of the Empire State (NY) Fellowship of Regular Baptist and then the Pa Fellowship of Regular Bapt. (Both affiliated with the GARBC) He then became pastor of SW Calvary Bap in Houston, TX. He then was installed as President of Denver Baptist Bible College. After Denver merged with Faith Baptist of Ankeny,Iowa,Dr. Brown became a pastor in NJ.

So do those seven items fully describe a Baptist church?
What other doctrines should be included in this list?

In his book DR Brown has a second "S" for Separation of Church and State

Other thoughts?

 

[Salty]

Actually, I have come to the conclusion that Deacons are NOT officers of the church. They are servants - to take care of physical needs of the congregation. By doing so - this relives the pastors so he may concentrate on the spiritual needs of the flock.

 

[Jerome]

I have come to the conclusion that Deacons are NOT officers of the church.

Uh oh! BF&M2000 says they are.

 

[TCassidy]

Actually Duane Brown did not originate the acrostic "BAPTIST." He took the acrostic which was common in Southern Baptist Churches in the late 50s and early 60s and added the "separation" to the end. (The above referenced book was published in 1969, long after the acrostic was in common use.) The acrostic may have been used as early as the mid 1600s during the English radical reformation.

Southern Baptist Churches, at the time of the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention in 1845, were, for the most part, confessional churches. As that began to change in the early 1920s, and especially during the rise of Modernism in the Convention, churches tended to no longer be confessional but simply deferred to whatever edition of the Baptist Faith and Message currently popular. To maintain the individual identity of the Convention they began to adopt the acrostic in place of the confessions common at the time of the founding.

And, of course, nobody would assert that the acrostic was exhaustive in its detailing of baptist faith and practice. For starters there would have to be a "C" for "Congregational government" along with other points evidenced in most churches calling themselves "baptist."

 

[TCassidy]

Actually, I have come to the conclusion that Deacons are NOT officers of the church.

Yeah. That is what "διακονος" means. But the bibles says they were in an office of the church. 1 Timothy 3:13 "For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus."

 

[Revmitchell]

Baptism by immersion only.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Actually, I have come to the conclusion that Deacons are NOT officers of the church. They are servants - to take care of physical needs of the congregation. By doing so - this relives the pastors so he may concentrate on the spiritual needs of the flock.

As TC noted, Paul referred to it as an office. In that context it seems more a reference to a position than to a rank.

When I saw the pluralized acrostic, the second "S" was for security of the believer.

 

[Bro. James]

We still have to deal with the fact that there is a Faith, once, for all, delivered to the saints. Jude 3. There is no mention of the Bishopric of Peter and the Holy See. (These folk contend for a faith once delivered to Constantine, The Great, in the fourth century.)

The concept of authority and keys is scriptural. The question is: who is in possession of them? A large portion of Christendom seem to have keys; but they do not fit the right lock.

Jesus said all authority was given to Him, in heaven and on earth--therefore, go ye... This is commonly called The Great Commission. In whom was He vesting His authority? The universal church? Jesus also said, "where ever two or three of you are gathered together IN MY NAME, there am I in the midst." Does this give authority to everyone thumping a Bible?

Universal church is a misguided doctrine which was propped by the Emperor of Rome, circa 325 A.D., at a so-called Christian counsel in Nicea. This council was led by Constantine and attended by apostate so-called Christians. Most of present-day Christendom came from this unholy matrimony between Church and State.

Were God's remnant at these councils? Probably not.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Salty]

So - if a church does not have deacons - does that mean it is not actually not a church?

 

[Revmitchell]

Baptism by immersion only.

I would add that receiving only those who have had Baptism by immersion only.

 

[Deacon]

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Two Ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper)
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved, Baptized Church membership
Two Offices (Pastor/Elder/Overseer & Deacon)

So if one were to remove the "Two Offices" part I'd suggest a new acronym ...

B-A-P-D-I-S-T

Biblical Authority
Autonomy of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Dinner
Individual Soul Liberty
Saved, Baptized Church membership
Two Ordinances (baptism and the Lord's Supper)

It fits nicely in the middle.
Everyone knows that the central theme common to all Baptist churches is food.

Rob

 

[TCassidy]

So - if a church does not have deacons - does that mean it is not actually not a church?

That would depend on why it does not have deacons.

Often a new church plant does not have deacons because none of the men are spiritually mature enough or qualified under Timothy and Titus. In that case, in my opinion, it would still be a church. Pray and wait on God to send the right men for the job.

But if there are no deacons because the pastor is a dictator and doesn't want anyone to hold him accountable for what he does and how he spends the money, etc., then I would question the legitimacy of that "church."

 

[Revmitchell]

That would depend on why it does not have deacons.

Often a new church plant does not have deacons because none of the men are spiritually mature enough or qualified under Timothy and Titus. In that case, in my opinion, it would still be a church. Pray and wait on God to send the right men for the job.

But if there are no deacons because the pastor is a dictator and doesn't want anyone to hold him accountable for what he does and how he spends the money, etc., then I would question the legitimacy of that "church."

Or if they are meeting in a home and reject the idea of having any biblical leadership due to the false idea that having such would make people unequal neither are they a church.

 

[Bro. James]

More at: two or three believers can have church without a pastor or a deacon; song director, piano, bongo drums, etc. etc. God does not dwell in temples made with hands.

The real Christians met in caves and catacombs--in fear of their lives, with or without officially dubbed officers, clerics and others using the gospel to make a living. Some Christians still are persecuted. That is what Jesus said would happen to those who follow Him. We have not a clue as to what persecution might be. Witness=martyr.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Here are two items the late Dr. Richard Weeks taught in his Baptist Polity classes at then Maranatha Baptist Bible College now Maranatha Baptist University:

The Baptist Distinctives BRAPSIS:

Bible only rule for Faith and Practice
Regenerate, Immersed Church Membership
Autonomy and Independence of the Local Church
Priesthood of the Believer
Separation of Church and State
Immersion of Believers and Lord's Supper Only Two Ordinances
Separation

• Ethical
• Ecclesiatical

A Definition of New Testament Church:

A New Testament Church is an organized, autonomous band of immersed Believers, having New Testament Officers, practicing New Testament Ordinances, and actively carrying out the Great Commission.
​

Please note, neither item refers to the Baptist label.

​

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually Duane Brown did not originate the acrostic "BAPTIST." He took the acrostic which was common in Southern Baptist Churches in the late 50s and early 60s and added the "separation" to the end. (The above referenced book was published in 1969, long after the acrostic was in common use.) The acrostic may have been used as early as the mid 1600s during the English radical reformation.

Southern Baptist Churches, at the time of the founding of the Southern Baptist Convention in 1845, were, for the most part, confessional churches. As that began to change in the early 1920s, and especially during the rise of Modernism in the Convention, churches tended to no longer be confessional but simply deferred to whatever edition of the Baptist Faith and Message currently popular. To maintain the individual identity of the Convention they began to adopt the acrostic in place of the confessions common at the time of the founding.

And, of course, nobody would assert that the acrostic was exhaustive in its detailing of baptist faith and practice. For starters there would have to be a "C" for "Congregational government" along with other points evidenced in most churches calling themselves "baptist."

So they were like Refomed Baptists in their beginnings?

 

[Yeshua1]

We still have to deal with the fact that there is a Faith, once, for all, delivered to the saints. Jude 3. There is no mention of the Bishopric of Peter and the Holy See. (These folk contend for a faith once delivered to Constantine, The Great, in the fourth century.)

The concept of authority and keys is scriptural. The question is: who is in possession of them? A large portion of Christendom seem to have keys; but they do not fit the right lock.

Jesus said all authority was given to Him, in heaven and on earth--therefore, go ye... This is commonly called The Great Commission. In whom was He vesting His authority? The universal church? Jesus also said, "where ever two or three of you are gathered together IN MY NAME, there am I in the midst." Does this give authority to everyone thumping a Bible?

Universal church is a misguided doctrine which was propped by the Emperor of Rome, circa 325 A.D., at a so-called Christian counsel in Nicea. This council was led by Constantine and attended by apostate so-called Christians. Most of present-day Christendom came from this unholy matrimony between Church and State.

Were God's remnant at these councils? Probably not.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Baptist churches are part of that Universal Body of Christ...

 

[Salty]

That would depend on why it does not have deacons.

In the case I was involved in - I became interm pastor of a church. There were only 3 members - all women. From my understanding - they used to run over 50 people. I dont know what happend as ot the reason why the decease in membership.
This was back in 1992 - so I dont remember all the details .

But if there are no deacons because the pastor is a dictator and doesn't want anyone to hold him accountable for what he does and how he spends the money, etc., then I would question the legitimacy of that "church."

Good Point T!
I was a member of a church where in a business meeting, we were going to vote on a deacon.
However the pastor said that our constitution did not call for deacons - so he recommended not to vote on that prospective deacon. My wife and I were preparing to move to another church for unrelated reasons. But had I been planning on staying - I would have stated that the Bible calls for deacons - and could care less what the church constitution did or did not say.

 

[Bro. James]

Did the First Church at Jerusalem have Church before they selected deacons? Perhaps they did not have too many tables on which to wait. Then there are the deacons who preach. Stephan, a deacon, was stoned to death for preaching the gospel. Saul of Tarsus was there. This example of martyrdom may have had a profound effect on Saul, soon to be Paul the Apostle. The Lord blinded Saul to get his complete attention.

Preaching, baptizing and teaching are the functions of believers gathered together by the authority of Jesus. A pastor or deacon are not necessarily required. Sorry if this makes more unemployed clerics and prelates.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Revmitchell]

Preaching, baptizing and teaching are the functions of believers gathered together by the authority of Jesus. A pastor or deacon are not necessarily required. Sorry if this makes more unemployed clerics and prelates.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

So you believe that because you have posted your false doctrine on this board more "clerics and prelates" will be "unemployed"? Really?

People think way to much of what they post on this board. It reaches narcissistic levels around here.