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Featured Calvinists vs Armenians: A Challenging--But Senseless--Debate

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by jomarc, Dec 13, 2016.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Mat_15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
     
    #81 Revmitchell, Dec 23, 2016
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He also stated that He was calling unto himself Gentiles, so that they would be included in His flock, in one Body!
     
    #82 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2016
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Please read the verse in its entirety
     
    #83 Revmitchell, Dec 23, 2016
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We would be one flock under Him as the Great Shepherd...
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2016
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    It answers the question "who hears?"
     
    #85 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, just those who belong to him...
     
    #86 Yeshua1, Dec 23, 2016
  7. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

    I think this passage answers "who hears" with a bit more insight (who hears the call of God for salvation)
     
    #87 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, unto babes in Christ. Exactly my point. Who hears? The regenerate. (After all, a babe is a person who has been born, right?)
     
    #88 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  9. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    IMO, i don't think that is the comparison that is being made. Look at the contrast between wise and prudent/Babes. He just got done denouncing the towns because of their lack of repentance, their PRIDE.

    They were wise in their own eyes. They didn't need God or His Christ.

    I believe that is the point of Christ's statement, The prideful spirit versus the humble spirit, that's who God reveals Himself to.

    Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven
     
    #89 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Except that is not what He said. He said "His sheep follow Him." And those who hear Him are called "babes." Not fetuses. Babes. With ears capable of hearing him. :)
     
    #90 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  11. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I was referring to the Matthew passage.

    John 10 deals with another subject...those who wanted to be leaders who were only hirelings vs. Christ and His Spirit who is the porter and the Shepherd. His sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Another voice they will not follow.

    This passage has different implications. IMO.

    back to my original importation (lol) not resisting isn't a work. Yielding oneself to the Spirit of God and His Christ is not a work. It's the Response that God desires and means when He says repent and believe. Surrender, yield, give in.
     
    #91 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    yield
    yēld/Submit
    verb
    1.
    produce or provide (a natural, agricultural, or industrial product).
    "the land yields grapes and tobacco"
    2.
    give way to arguments, demands, or pressure.

    A verb. Something you do. You can't write your own dictionary when the words disagree with your presuppositions. :)
     
    #92 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  13. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Yielding can happen without "doing" anything :)
     
    #93 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    ...but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
    John 20:31 NKJV


    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo
     
    #94 InTheLight, Dec 23, 2016
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  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes. The bible is given to us so we can believe correct doctrine, and we have new life, believing on His Name.

    But I still fail to see where you have to do something. Unless you are talking about "believing" which, of course, is a work.
     
    #95 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So an active verb can be a - well, a what? I already posted the dictionary entry for "yield." Did you miss it? Yield: Active Verb. Verb: a word used to describe an action. Action: something done or performed; an act; a deed.
     
    #96 TCassidy, Dec 23, 2016
  17. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I see. So if believing is a work, then faith is a work as well, huh?
     
    #97 InTheLight, Dec 23, 2016
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  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    LoL...you are very strong willed!

    Ok...let's take it to the extreme, a person WENT to a revival to hear the Word, they DID something.

    Your train (of thought) makes sense when it stops at the station of your choice :)
     
    #98 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that it is difficult to nail down. It sounds to me like the argument is that it is a work to resist but it is also a work not to resist (both believing and not believing are seen as active verbs).

    I believe (actively, I suppose) that all men by nature resist God. But I also believe than when God reveals truth it generates belief (not as an action on the part of the believer, but as a result of truth revealed).
     
    #99 JonC, Dec 23, 2016
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I can roll with this :)

    God reveals truth. Agreed

    He opens the eyes of the blind. Agreed.

    Does that mean they will submit to the will of God and be saved?

    Luke 17:14-19 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
    And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
    And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
    And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
    There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
    And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

    I do not equate revelation of Truth to regeneration. Nor do I believe regeneration has to take place for revelation of Truth.

    Understanding of salvation and sanctification and who God is, yes that needs regeneration.

    God revealing that you're a sinner in need of a Savior, that's the work of the Word and Spirit prior to regeneration. Otherwise you'd know all about salvation and it's in workings and out workings the day you got saved.
     
    #100 JonShaff, Dec 23, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
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