AndThisGospel
Member
Agree....
Lucifer was made blameless. He was "the seal of perfection". That's how God made him. Something went wrong, but we can't blame God.
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Free-will, Lucifer and God
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Agree....
Lucifer was made blameless. He was "the seal of perfection". That's how God made him. Something went wrong, but we can't blame God.
That's a huge assumption with no textual support.
AndThisGospel
Member
Now for a heavy duty question: Why did God create Lucifer knowing that he would become the adversary?
Done see prior posting
God decreed that Evil would exist in His creation, and Satan chose to take on his roleof advesary of God and the saved of God. Judasdid same thing, as God determined an Apostle would fall, and Judas chose to do just tha!
AndThisGospel
Member
Then you must blame God for creating sin (i.e., the love of self)! Do you really want to lay the blame and authorship for "sin & death" on God?
Lucifer was created blameless.....
AndThisGospel
Member
If God wasn't a God of love I would fear for you right now. You are placing the blame for sin and death upon God the Creator of all that is good. Please re-think your position.
God decreed that both woul exist, but he did not cause them to exist, as Satan and Adam chose to do their sinning!
God decreed that evil and sin would take place, but He was not the cause of that, Satan and Adam were!
He wanted it and made it possible, then let it happen.
Is that your position? I'm just trying to clarify.
You have a huge leap in your thinking.
By your logic you might argue that God created free will and free will lead to sin therefore God created sin by virtue of free will.
Do you see the circularity of your thinking?
I am content to know that God chose to be gracious to me, a sinner.
God wanted them to happen in His creation, but He did not cause them, Satan and Adam both freely choose to sin , and that caused sin and evil into His creation!
The hypothetical argument you described would be quite linear, though.
Aw Willis, let go a little of such strict adherence 'to the letter' and 'spiritualize' a little. Do you think those seven kings (actually eight) of Rev 17:10-11 were literally, only flesh & blood men?
In the case of Ezekiel, however, the entire book is a presentation of God's holiness and his anger/hatred of sin. From Judah to Israel, to Babylon to Tyre to Sidon to Edom to Egypt, etc, the book speaks of historical figures and nations whom God will judge. It is important to understand this before jumping into other speculative interpretations.
In Revelation did the churches actually exist to whom a letter is written? Mounce does a fantastic job in his commentary of the churches in Revelation. He shows the historic references Jesus uses in addressing the churches. He rejects the "ages of the church" theory, that so many evangelicals believe, by showing the historicity of the letters to the specific time. There is no need to create some fantasy that is not provided in the text.
Think th God could use the King of trye as a type for satan, and had blendimg of the two, and the 7 churches were real in time of John, and could stand in for types of churches through coming church history... There seemsto be many time in prophecy a right now fulfillmet, later on fulfillment going on...
Sure it's possible, but we ought always to seek the plain and common sense interpretation first.
Golden rule of interpretation:
When the plain sense makes common sense seek no other sense.
But it's true that the NT writers didn't follow that rule.
Some of the OT citations were particularly creative.
That would be true as priciple, but the prophetic elment had its own specific rules, such as dual fulfillment, types etc...
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