Total Depravity vs Free Will

[Shadowlands]

My (former) Psychology professor put it this way: "People don't have mental problems.
They have behavioral problems, and it's nothing that a swift kick in the pants and a few
days in jail wouldn't cure!"

Mental "illness" does not exist. It is not a legitimate medical diagnosis. It's not even a
valid science, because there is no science or medicine to back it up. You can't take a
perfectly healthy person and declare them "ill" just like that. The brain per se is an
organism, subject to illness or injury. The only qualifying mental illness can surface
but only if it is physiologically related, i.e. injury caused by blunt force trauma, deliberate
or by accident.

If you can find the following, I encourage you (if you're interested) to read these. They're
very informative:

"The Myth of Mental illness" by Dr. Thomas S. Szasz, M.D. (name's pronounced "sawz").

"Psychiatric Drugs: Hazardous To The Brain" by Dr. Peter R. Breggin, M.D.*

* Dr. Breggin is leading the all-out fight against the drugging of our children in America's
public schools, i.e. the frequent, unjustified use of Ritalin! He also points out that in every
single instance of an active shooter, they were on psychiatric drugs.

"Against Therapy and The Myth of Psychological Healing", by Dr. Geoffery M. Masson, Ph.D

"Psychiatric Terror: How Psychiatry Is Used To Suppress Dissent", by Martin L. Gross

"Witch Doctors and Psychiatrists: the Common Roots of Psychotherapy and It's Future".
by Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, M.D. **

** The mid evil connection between witch doctors potions and modern psychiatry.
The psychiatrists being the witch doctors and the potions equivalent to medication.
Sounds laughable, but you won't be afterwards.

 

[utilyan]

With the fall of man God gives a list of curses and results of sinning.

Genesis 3:14-24.


Of all the horrible disasters and penalties you think God would mention or at least peep the most glaring harsh hell bound penalty that is: THOU FREE WILL HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY and YOU ARE NO LONGER CAPABLE OF DOING ANYTHING GOOD (BIG G GOOD, GODLY GOOD, not FAKE GOOD)

This penalty simply not in scripture. All you have to do is SHOW IT. Instead the next instance of recorded sin is God making appeals to Cain to Master over his desire to sin.

 

[Martin Andrews]

Only the regenerate heart can hear, believe, repent, and obey.

Huh? You are saying that a person is "born-again" first, and then they "can hear, believe, repent and obey"., Which means they are "born-again" TWICE!

Titus 3 says different:

"But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life"

Here the Bible says that being BORN AGAIN is the same as REGENERATION. The Greek is "παλιγγενεσίας", which means, "rebirth, regeneration" (Liddell and Scott); "properly, new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation" (Thayer). Clearly "regeneration" is when a person is "born-again", when they repent and have their sins forgiven. It is "reformed" nonsense that says a person is "born again", which enables them to call on the Lord for salvation, and then are "born again" AGAIN when they repent. This might be "theologically" sound to some, but the Bible does NOT agree with this at all!

 

[TCassidy]

Huh? You are saying that a person is "born-again" first, and then they "can hear, believe, repent and obey"., Which means they are "born-again" TWICE!

No. I am saying that faith, repentance, and obedience are the result of regeneration, not the cause of it. And Titus 3 fully supports that view.

 

[TCassidy]

The only qualifying mental illness can surface
but only if it is physiologically related, i.e. injury caused by blunt force trauma, deliberate or by accident.

Nonsense. Medical science now knows that neurotransmitter imbalances within the brain can cause psychiatric conditions, and therefore, medications can be used to target these imbalances and help improve disease states.

 

[Martin Andrews]

No. I am saying that faith, repentance, and obedience are the result of regeneration, not the cause of it. And Titus 3 fully supports that view.

so regeneration comes AFTER or UPON a person repenting and believing and trusting Jesus? Not the teaching that is about that a person is regenerated first then is able to call upon the Lord for salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

Nonsense. Medical science now knows that neurotransmitter imbalances within the brain can cause psychiatric conditions, and therefore, medications can be used to target these imbalances and help improve disease states.

Think that there are indeed chemical processes in the brain that can be helped by proper medicine, but there is also a lot of bogus stuff involving a deniel of din and reality from the biblical viewpoint in psychology!

 

[TCassidy]

so regeneration comes AFTER or UPON a person repenting and believing and trusting Jesus? Not the teaching that is about that a person is regenerated first then is able to call upon the Lord for salvation?

No, faith, repentance, and obedience are the result of regeneration, not the cause of it.

 

[Martin Andrews]

No, faith, repentance, and obedience are the result of regeneration, not the cause of it.

Where is this taught in the Bible?

 

[TCassidy]

Where is this taught in the Bible?

Titus 3.

 

[Martin Andrews]

Titus 3.

no it does not. you are making this say what you believe. Show me where it says in this passage that "repentance" is the result of "regeneration"? A person FIRST is to repent and then they are born-again.

 

[InTheLight]

 

[Nam 68]

Can't RE-Generate something that was never there.

That's like someone cutting out a piece of glass handing it to you and saying REPAIR my television.

Regenerate implies a original perfect condition.

Why not use a term you mean like GENERATE? Only the heart generated by God can hear, believe, repent and obey.



The "RE" in REgenerate is there for a reason.

In the beginning it was there but Adam fell In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. They ate and what happened. They died now it must be regenerated and that's done by the effectual and irresistible call if the HS Life precedes everything including free will even if there was such a thing Ye must be born again then and only then can a person make a decision to follow Jesus. Be a disciple. Adam exercised his "free will" and we see how that worked out. If saved it is by grace and not by an act of "free will" or any other act performed by man That includes all,adult,child,infant and the insane. I ask how many ways does God need to save a person One,by grace All the other ways have one common denominator:man has to act in some way to invoke God to act. Man cannot act before he is born again because he is dead(spiritually). Just as God blew the breath of life into Adam to live physically he blows the breath life into man to live spiritually. For by grace are ye saved plus nothing else

 

[Martin Andrews]

In the beginning it was there but Adam fell In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. They ate and what happened. They died now it must be regenerated and that's done by the effectual and irresistible call if the HS Life precedes everything including free will even if there was such a thing Ye must be born again then and only then can a person make a decision to follow Jesus. Be a disciple. Adam exercised his "free will" and we see how that worked out. If saved it is by grace and not by an act of "free will" or any other act performed by man That includes all,adult,child,infant and the insane. I ask how many ways does God need to save a person One,by grace All the other ways have one common denominator:man has to act in some way to invoke God to act. Man cannot act before he is born again because he is dead(spiritually). Just as God blew the breath of life into Adam to live physically he blows the breath life into man to live spiritually. For by grace are ye saved plus nothing else

"Ye must be born again then and only then can a person make a decision to follow Jesus", this is NOT in the Bible and is taught only by those who see "repenting" as a "work", which is complete rubbish. If you were to read Jonah, it says about God, "Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it". This is NOT "works" as doing something to "earn" forgiveness, but the fact that they "repented", which is what the verse says, "that they turned from their evil ways". No where in the entire Bible do we read that anyone is "regenerated" and then they call on the Lord. As "regeneration" is BECAUSE they call on the Lord in repentance. I will never be convinced otherwise as it is NOT in the Bible, but "reformed" nonsense!

 

[tyndale1946]

no it does not. you are making this say what you believe. Show me where it says in this passage that "repentance" is the result of "regeneration"? A person FIRST is to repent and then they are born-again.

In the beginning it was there but Adam fell In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. They ate and what happened. They died now it must be regenerated and that's done by the effectual and irresistible call if the HS Life precedes everything including free will even if there was such a thing Ye must be born again then and only then can a person make a decision to follow Jesus. Be a disciple. Adam exercised his "free will" and we see how that worked out. If saved it is by grace and not by an act of "free will" or any other act performed by man That includes all,adult,child,infant and the insane. I ask how many ways does God need to save a person One,by grace All the other ways have one common denominator:man has to act in some way to invoke God to act. Man cannot act before he is born again because he is dead(spiritually). Just as God blew the breath of life into Adam to live physically he blows the breath life into man to live spiritually. For by grace are ye saved plus nothing else

Being born again brings forth a natural event with a spiritual application... You don't know who your natural father is until you see him for the first time... Neither do you know who your Spiritual Father is until you are born-again... How can one repent without Spiritual Life?... One cries when they are born and are nutured by their natural father... Is it any different with the child born of God... If one is dead... You hath he quickened who were dead in trespasses and in sin... Quickened implies being made alive again but you were dead to the things of God... Go down to the cemetery and speak to some corpse in the ground and tell it to repent... Being born-again causes the child of God on the road to confession and repentance for the rest of their lives... But only after being-born again... Brother Glen

 

[TCassidy]

no it does not. you are making this say what you believe. Show me where it says in this passage that "repentance" is the result of "regeneration"? A person FIRST is to repent and then they are born-again.

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, (nothing we do, not believe, not repent, not obey) but according to his mercy, he saved us (it was by his mercy and grace, not anything we did or had) through the washing of regeneration (it was being regenerated that saved us) and renewing by the Holy Spirit (the ministry of the Holy Spirit which makes all things new).

Titus 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior;

Titus 3:7 that being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Martin Andrews]

Being born again brings forth a natural event with a spiritual application... You don't know who your natural father is until you see him for the first time... Neither do you know who your Spiritual Father is until you are born-again... How can one repent without Spiritual Life?... One cries when they are born and are nutured by their natural father... Is it any different with the child born of God... If one is dead... You hath he quickened who were dead in trespasses and in sin... Quickened implies being made alive again but you were dead to the things of God... Go down to the cemetery and speak to some corpse in the ground and tell it to repent... Being born-again causes the child of God on the road to confession and repentance for the rest of their lives... But only after being-born again... Brother Glen

The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of sin, THEN a person responds and repents and asks for forgiveness. Look at Titus 3:5 and you will see that REGENERATION is the SAME as BORN AGAIN. In fact the Greek word used in Titus means just that, BORN AGAIN. You CANNOT be born again TWICE. Forget theology I want Bible ONLY, and it is NOT taught anywhere.

 

[InTheLight]

Being born again brings forth a natural event with a spiritual application... You don't know who your natural father is until you see him for the first time... Neither do you know who your Spiritual Father is until you are born-again... How can one repent without Spiritual Life?... One cries when they are born and are nutured by their natural father... Is it any different with the child born of God... If one is dead... You hath he quickened who were dead in trespasses and in sin... Quickened implies being made alive again but you were dead to the things of God... Go down to the cemetery and speak to some corpse in the ground and tell it to repent... Being born-again causes the child of God on the road to confession and repentance for the rest of their lives... But only after being-born again... Brother Glen

Hmmm...

Ezekiel 18
26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.
27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive.
28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”

 

[TCassidy]

You CANNOT be born again TWICE.

Straw man. Nobody has made such a claim.

 

[Martin Andrews]

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, (nothing we do, not believe, not repent, not obey) but according to his mercy, he saved us (it was by his mercy and grace, not anything we did or had) through the washing of regeneration (it was being regenerated that saved us) and renewing by the Holy Spirit (the ministry of the Holy Spirit which makes all things new).

Titus 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior;

Titus 3:7 that being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

You still have NOT shown from this passage or elsewhere, where it says that a sinner is BORN AGAIN to repent, and then BORN AGAIN after they repent? This is rubbish. Don't get hung up on the word "regenerate" as it means in the Greek in Titus, BORN AGAIN.