John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

[Yeshua1]

They were the poster boys for those paul wrote about as being natural men who received not the things of God!

 

[HankD]

Hank, was Cain redeemed so his spirit was brought to life from death? Or was Cain still dead in his sins? Did Cain ever receive saving faith?
You are mixing the physical life of Cain, where he heard God, into the spiritual where we have no indication that he ever was made alive.
That is the same problem that Jon is having. He takes physical life and attributes it to spiritual life. If we go by your proposal, Satan should be in perfect union with God...made fully alive because he has heard God's voice. Yet, that is not true in the least. Therefore, we can see that a person can be physically alive, yet spiritually dead. They can hear God physically speak and yet be entirely dead because God has not raised them to spiritual life. That is the image in Ephesians 2. You were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you once lived.

So then the dead can hear God as we see in Genesis 4, howbeit through their physical ears, thank you.

HankD

 

[MennoSota]

So then the dead can hear God as we see in Genesis 4, howbeit through their physical ears, thank you.

HankD

No one ever argued that when God spoke with a physically audible voice people could not hear him.
However, more than Saul/Paul heard God on the road to Damascus, but only Saul was made alive so that he was reconciled to Jesus. Paul was made spiritually alive before he could spiritually hear.
This is not difficult to understand. Why do you struggle with this. Hank?

 

[JonShaff]

No one ever argued that when God spoke with a physically audible voice people could not hear him.
However, more than Saul/Paul heard God on the road to Damascus, but only Saul was made alive so that he was reconciled to Jesus. Paul was made spiritually alive before he could spiritually hear.
This is not difficult to understand. Why do you struggle with this. Hank?

You are the one struggling with what is spiritual. God won't bless you with understanding while you have animosity with the brethren. God calling a person to saving faith does not require a person to be regenerated. Spiritually dead people hear God.

 

[MennoSota]

You are the one struggling with what is spiritual. God won't bless you with understanding while you have animosity with the brethren. God calling a person to saving faith does not require a person to be regenerated. Spiritually dead people hear God.

The only one with animosity is you toward those who see God's sovereignty in salvation by making people alive in Christ.
I feel pity for your struggles, Jon.

 

[JonShaff]

The only one with animosity is you toward those who see God's sovereignty in salvation by making people alive in Christ.
I feel pity for your struggles, Jon.

Now you're just getting juvenile.

 

[MennoSota]

I get it, Jon. You cannot see what you cannot see. I cannot open your eyes. That is for God to do. I was blind to God's sovereignty for many years as a Christian. I do not question your faith. I do question your hermeneutics.

 

[InTheLight]

Interesting judgment on your part. Your comments are expected from one who desires to ignore the scriptures in order to hold on to their pet theologies that place themselves on the throne and make God subservient. I have called out your faulty theology and you get upset. I expect this, even though the better response is to look at scripture and consider if you have a bias that is stopping you from seeing.

Holding that mirror up over here Boss, so you can see yourself in it! Again!

 

[MennoSota]

Holding that mirror up over here Boss, so you can see yourself in it! Again!

You avoid the scripture, but accuse. Interesting...

 

[Yeshua1]

You are the one struggling with what is spiritual. God won't bless you with understanding while you have animosity with the brethren. God calling a person to saving faith does not require a person to be regenerated. Spiritually dead people hear God.

Not in a saving sense!

 

[JonShaff]

Not in a saving sense!

LoL...so you guys get to choose who can hear God, how they hear God and what the implications are...As long as it fits into your theological framework. Got it!

 

[Yeshua1]

LoL...so you guys get to choose who can hear God, how they hear God and what the implications are...As long as it fits into your theological framework. Got it!

Jesus stated that only those whom God gave ears to hear with will hear Him, correct? rest are blocked up?

 

[JonShaff]

Jesus stated that only those whom God gave ears to hear with will hear Him, correct? rest are blocked up?

What do the Scriptures say?

Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not UNDERSTAND, so they may not repent and be forgiven.”

Why?

Is it because God hates the pharisees?

Is it because God hates the saducees?

Is it because of their unbelief/pride?

 

[MennoSota]

What do the Scriptures say?

Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not UNDERSTAND, so they may not repent and be forgiven.”

Why?

Is it because God hates the pharisees?

Is it because God hates the saducees?

Is it because of their unbelief/pride?

Is it all of the above?

Is it because they are not found in Christ, the only perfect one?

 

[SovereignGrace]

You are the one struggling with what is spiritual. God won't bless you with understanding while you have animosity with the brethren. God calling a person to saving faith does not require a person to be regenerated. Spiritually dead people hear God.

That is why regeneration first, is an absolute must Brother. The unregenerate have hearts that hate Him. That is why He gives them a new heart & Spirit, a heart of flesh, a heart of love.[Ezekiel 11:19 & Ezekiel 36:26] It is those who are born of God[John 1:13] that love Him.[1 John 4:7]

 

[JonShaff]

That is why regeneration first, is an absolute must Brother. The unregenerate have hearts that hate Him. That is why He gives them a new heart & Spirit, a heart of flesh, a heart of love.[Ezekiel 11:19 & Ezekiel 36:26] It is those who are born of God[John 1:13] that love Him.[1 John 4:7]

So one must love God before they can be saved? Noted.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So one must love God before they can be saved? Noted.

You have to be given a new heart first. We were His enemy, yet He died for His enemies.[Romans 5:11]

We, as a natural man(unregenerate, lost) man, were at enmity(enemy) with God.[Romans 8:7] We could not understand His word.[1 Corinthians 2:14]

 

[InTheLight]

You have to be given a new heart first.

Why does God tell us to "get yourselves a new heart?"

“Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?"

Ezekiel 18:31

 

[Yeshua1]

So one must love God before they can be saved? Noted.

No, one has to have a new heart/mind to desire to get saved and come to Jesus for that!

 

[Yeshua1]

What do the Scriptures say?

Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not UNDERSTAND, so they may not repent and be forgiven.”

Why?

Is it because God hates the pharisees?

Is it because God hates the saducees?

Is it because of their unbelief/pride?

He called them spawns of the Devil, so?