John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

[SovereignGrace]

I'm failing to see the difference. According to Calvinists, God commands people to repent and then doesn't give them the ability to do so. In fact, he commands all men everywhere to repent and then bypasses millions of people by not giving them the ability to do so.



So God commands all men everywhere to repent and then he picks and chooses the ones he wants to save. When man does not repent, that's man's fault.

The unregenerate man will not repent. He hates Him. He can not repent because He will not repent.

 

[InTheLight]

No, Brother MennoSota was spot on. God gave the Jews the Law to
kept, kept them to the demands of it, killing mny who broke it, knowing full well they could not keep it.

We are in the New Covenant now. Law keeping is not salvific.

We are commanded to be holy as He is holy. It is God's command to be holy, but He knows we cant, but He still commands it.

Holiness is a part of sanctification, not justification.

Just like Acts 17:30. God commands all men everywhere to repent. Even those who died never hearing the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

A few weeks ago, a Gideon spoke at church and said that they were making inroads into India. Yet, 1.3 BILLION ppl, in India alone, have not heard the gospel. A few months ago on 'Focus on the Family' they said that 8 BILLION ppl worldwide had not heard the gospel. And in C.I. Scofield's book 'Prophecy Made Plane'(not a dispy but mhy pastor loaned it to me), he stated in that book over 800 MILLION ppl had not heard the gospel. I don't know where they pull these #'s from, but it shows that many have, are, and will die never hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. And they are commanded to repent, too.

Yeah, and?

 

[MennoSota]

Only those who are in Christ are loved by God. This is because Christ is our propitiation, which makes us holy before God the Father. God will not and does not love that which is evil. Because God chose his children before the foundation of the world, he demonstrates his love toward us even while we were yet sinners. (We are in Christ)
God will never have even one of his children fail to be adopted by him. He will always love his children...even before they know they are his children.

 

[JonShaff]

What was the purpose of the law? Paul does a wonderful job laying this out in the letter to the Romans. I encourage you to read it. Your questions will be answered.

If the law is spiritual (which it is Rom. 7:14) how could it convict a dead man?

 

[JonShaff]

Marriage betwixt a man and woman is a picture of salvation. If the one you wanted to marry you hated your guts, in no way, shape, form or fashion would she say "I do". You loved your wife before you proposed and therefore, you proposed and she loving you as well, said yes. God loved us before we entered into the salvation covenant. God, by His divine quickening, gave us a new heart, a heart that loved Him. We then sought Him. These happen simultaneously.



He loved us even while we were His enemy.[Romans 5:11] It was when He divinely quickened us, that our hatred for Him changed. When I cried out to God to save me, I loved Him. He saved me.

Your understanding of the Union we have with Christ and when it happens and why it happens if demonstrably off.

Do you love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength?

 

[MennoSota]

If the law is spiritual (which it is Rom. 7:4) how could it convict a dead man?

What is the purpose of the law? The law was given so that we might know what sin is.
Jon, you contend that the law is spiritual. The text does not make that claim one way or another. The text tells us the purpose for the law and the fact that sin took advantage of the law to arouse even more evil desires than we had before the law. What the law did was to condemn us before God, our judge. Paul then asks, who will deliver us from this condemnation. He answers this with a praise. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
If you are not in Christ Jesus, you are condemned. If you are in Christ you are not condemned.

The law shows us our spiritual death, which we cannot bring to life, no matter how hard we might try. Only God can make us spiritually alive. Only God can place us in Christ.

Romans 7:4-14
[4]So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God.
[5]When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death.
[6]But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.
[7]Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”
[8]But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power.
[9]At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life,
[10]and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead.
[11]Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me.
[12]But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
[13]But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.
[14]So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.

 

[JonShaff]

What is the purpose of the law? The law was given so that we might know what sin is.
Jon, you contend that the law is spiritual. The text does not make that claim one way or another. The text tells us the purpose for the law and the fact that sin took advantage of the law to arouse even more evil desires than we had before the law. What the law did was to condemn us before God, our judge. Paul then asks, who will deliver us from this condemnation. He answers this with a praise. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
If you are not in Christ Jesus, you are condemned. If you are in Christ you are not condemned.

The law shows us our spiritual death, which we cannot bring to life, no matter how hard we might try. Only God can make us spiritually alive. Only God can place us in Christ.

Romans 7:4-14
[4]So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God.
[5]When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death.
[6]But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.
[7]Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”
[8]But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power.
[9]At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life,
[10]and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead.
[11]Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me.
[12]But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
[13]But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.
[14]So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.

I had a typo...I meant to quote Romans 7:14...if the law is spiritual, how can it convict a dead man?

Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I don't contend with what you say in this particular post; I contend with *your* details of what it means to be Spiritually Dead. IMO Spiritually dead means to be condemned.

 

[MennoSota]

I had a typo...I meant to quote Romans 7:14...if the law is spiritual, how can it convict a dead man?

Romans 7:14
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I don't contend with what you say in this particular post; I contend with *your* details of what it means to be Spiritually Dead. IMO Spiritually dead means to be condemned.

Right. Our condemnation stems from Adam's sin. We are born condemned as rebels. This means we are spiritually dead from birth. The law makes us aware of our spiritual situation and reveals our condemnation. The law does not provide hope. There must be a Redeemer. In Christ we are redeemed and made spiritually alive.

 

[JonShaff]

Right. Our condemnation stems from Adam's sin. We are born condemned as rebels. This means we are spiritually dead from birth. The law makes us aware of our spiritual situation and reveals our condemnation. The law does not provide hope. There must be a Redeemer. In Christ we are redeemed and made spiritually alive.

Agreed.
You really are some sort of Internet Theologian.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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